Kodak paper. sigh.

Kodak rep informed my employer that kodak b&w polymax glossy is gone forever and there is no backstock left of which we may order.
Semi-matte is still available for the time being though.

B&H still has some polymax left, though it's a bit expensive.

I really don't understand why Kodak has discontinued their paper; it was really good stuff.

Well, there'll be a replacement for it from some companies eventually, I'm sure.

Kodak? Kodak is dead to me.

My money is going to Ilford!

Jon.

That's why there is Ilford. Their Multigrade IV is quite nice paper.

htmlguru4242 said:

I really don't understand why Kodak has discontinued their paper; it was really good stuff.

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As I understand it, the whole story condenses to something like this: their paper stock supplier (since they outsourced paper base production a few years ago) has discontinued the base stock, and finding a replacement base that would give identical results (much more important to a Kodak than, say, a Forte or Foma) would be prohibitively expensive in an era of milking the cash cow.

We can probably expect to see this happen, in one form or another, to all our printing papers; they'll either change significantly from batch to batch (not necessarily the emulsion, but perhaps the base, or the white undercoat -- or perhaps the emulsion as well, as photographic gelatin becomes a niche product), or will winnow down to only a few distinct products. It's the nature of the industry as it downsizes to fit the ongoing demand that remains after digital takes up most advertising, portrait, and even magazine photography.

The good news, if you want to call it that, is that B&W was already something of a niche craft, so has a little less downsizing than color ahead of it. Even more good news is that there are still companies coating, cutting, and packaging B&W materials that most of us have never heard of -- at least one or two in India, for instance, whose products aren't exported AFAIK, as well as a couple in China that I'm not aware of being available in North America.

I expect in another five years, it'll be Ilford, Foma, Forte, a couple most of us have never heard of, and possibly still Fuji in B&W paper -- and ten years after that, there'll be two to three distinct brands of B&W enlarging papers, likely only one still producing graded material and possibly only one (not even the same one) in fiber base (RC is both cheaper to produce, and less subject to variation in material supply).

What Donald says makes sense, though it's still a shame. My money weill be going to other companies as well, as I've discovered that I really like Efke, Fuji and Lucky China films. For paper, we'll have to see ...

Here in Sao Paulo, the shelves of Kodak papers are also empties. Good bye Kodak. As said before, we must support who supports us. This doesn't involve Kodak.

I received a 50 pack of Polymax 16x20 from B&H yesterday. That is for finishing a project started earlier. New stuff is going quite nicely on Kentmere Fineprint VC. Thank you Michael Mutmansky for suggesting it.

I like the Kentmere a lot. I will be moving up to 20x24 and am a little disappointed that Freestyle is not showing the 50 pack in their Kentmere offerings, just the 10 pack. Kentmere UK shows that it is packed that way. Is there simply not much demand for 20x24?

John Powers

jp80874 said:

Is there simply not much demand for 20x24?

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Very litle, compared to 8x10 and 11x14, I would think.

It's worth noting that Lucky Films has started laying off workers and that their net profit was down 78 percent with no special charges in the last quarter. If anything, the uptake curve of digital in China will be more aggressive than what we saw in the USA/EU/Japan in the last half-dozen years. Same for India.

I don't see Lucky as any long-term solution. Nor, indeed, any of the current players.

E. European makers will be slaughtered when the EMU arrives and the cost of capital goes through the roof and I just don't see the Chinese focusing on a niche product.

I've already been burned twice in the last month with defects on Lucky 135 film - so, basically, I consider it unreliable crap and my money isn't going there.

Kodaks practices are a joke. Inagine a car maker saying that they will cease prodcution of engines in two months and the tires next year and the body in a year or two?

I am with the others. As far as I am concerned Kodak is dead and I buy (LF) Ilford, Efke, and starting JandC and for MF Fuji ACROS.

For paper Oriental and Ilford and if I can get it Forte. I am going to also try Kentmere.

Don’t support Kodak as they don’t support us.

PAPER : Choice In The Future

Dear All,

I read this thread with interest, my name is Simon and I work at ILFORD Photo, HARMAN technology Limited :

Everywhere on APUG forums I read about choice, choice for the creative photographer and printer, I am really confident that choice will remain. Yes mono is a niche but many new people join the band every year, and discover the true value of monochrome.

You mentioned many companies, companies that we at ILFORD have long
competed with ( and admired and valued ) some will remain, although not many coaters I am afraid, although we hope to see something positive from the current situation at AGFA, if not, I believe we will be last combined film, chemistry and paper manufacturer, but I am sure others will continue, again niches can be profitable.

I can promise that we will try to continue to give choice, please see my contributions to the Product Availability ( perceptol lives ) thread. We really do want to understand what APUG members want, and what they feel they have lost from KODAK and others. Also mentioned were raw material issues, this is very true, the choice is smaller, but we do have great suppliers who do see a niche photo future remaining, we will continue to make RC included graded, and FB, including graded.

Finally I can contribute some information, I am afraid that no mono coating is currently taking place in India

Regards

Simon

Simon R Galley said:

Dear All,

I read this thread with interest, my name is Simon and I work at ILFORD Photo, HARMAN technology Limited :

Everywhere on APUG forums I read about choice, choice for the creative photographer and printer, I am really confident that choice will remain. Yes mono is a niche but many new people join the band every year, and discover the true value of monochrome.

You mentioned many companies, companies that we at ILFORD have long
competed with ( and admired and valued ) some will remain, although not many coaters I am afraid, although we hope to see something positive from the current situation at AGFA, if not, I believe we will be last combined film, chemistry and paper manufacturer, but I am sure others will continue, again niches can be profitable.

I can promise that we will try to continue to give choice, please see my contributions to the Product Availability ( perceptol lives ) thread. We really do want to understand what APUG members want, and what they feel they have lost from KODAK and others. Also mentioned were raw material issues, this is very true, the choice is smaller, but we do have great suppliers who do see a niche photo future remaining, we will continue to make RC included graded, and FB, including graded.

Finally I can contribute some information, I am afraid that no mono coating is currently taking place in India

Regards

Simon

Click to expand...

It is interesting to see that 7 dayshop in Guernsey now only stocks Ilford, albeit only the high volume line of Multigrade IV RC, whereas there used to be Tura and Kodak including colour. This isn't a source that is dedicated to analogue. far from it, but it is these kinds of traders that have an eye for what will sell and from whom to buy.

Well done Ilford. If these kind of places stock your product you must have a future.

Pentaxuser

If these catch on Kodak may reverse there decision.

Curt said:

Kodaks practices are a joke. Inagine a car maker saying that they will cease prodcution of engines in two months and the tires next year and the body in a year or two?

Click to expand...

This is not nearly a close approximation of what is really happening.

And, with this attitude, you hurt things more than help.

Imagine this. Chevrolet stopped making the Vega in the 80s. Everyone says they will stop buying Chevy cars as the company is unreliable and probably going to go out of business. That is a more reasonable comparison to yours.

Kodak stopped production of some product lines. Not the engine, not the tires. BTW, ever buy chevy tires? Hmmm? Neither did I? Never heard of them.

I am a retired EK researcher. I still buy what I like. I use Ilford films and Ilford paper for B&W, but I use Kodak for color. Go buy some Ilford color negative film. And perhaps in a few years, you won't be able to buy Ilfochrome material either. Are you going to reject Ilford then if they stop making Ilfochrome?

PE

I hope Ilford doesn't stop making it. I told myself that I'll have to give the Ilfochrome process a try before the end of the decade! Right now its a little beyond my capabilities.