Kodak Flexicolor 20L developer replenisher 3667805 mixing instructions?

[Mr Bill]

So you add starter to the replenisher separately before you mix a working solution? I thought you only needed starter when making a working solution for the first time with the replenisher.

I'm not following everything in this thread exactly, but your last sentence is correct. Way back, when I was a young wet-behind-the-ears photo lab tech, another tech explained it to me thusly... he said, "Don't think of it as just 'developer.' Think of it as either 'tank solution' (which is what you actually develop your film in) or 'replenisher.'" Commercial labs, as a general rule, use replenished systems. So the vast majority of C-41 "developers" sold are replenishers. If this is what you have, and you want to use it to develop film, then you need to convert it to a "tank solution." (By using starter solution according to the instructions on the bottle.)

It sort of appears to me that you are mixing correctly (I'm not exactly certain, though). Regardless, based on your photos in post #6, something is very wrong. Assuming that the lower photo is properly developed, comparison of the edge print suggests that the top image is pretty severely underdeveloped. If it were me, I'd go back through my entire process with a fine-toothed comb, looking mainly for a dumb mistake. For example, are you reading a graduated cylinder from the wrong end, or making a wrong unit conversion, or whatever? I'm thinking something that gives you 2 or 3 times the correct starter addition.

I WOULD suspect a possible temperature error, but I see (post 6) that you ran a test several degrees too hot with no obvious difference. This strikes me as strange... I'd expect to see SOME effect.

If you don't find some significant error I think you have to consider the possibility that your developer has gone bad (this would likely be a result of the developing agent, CD-4, becoming oxidized).

I see that you're using a Jobo processor. You're not trying to run a replenished system with this, are you?

 

[reelquickfilmlab]

I'm not following everything in this thread exactly, but your last sentence is correct. Way back, when I was a young wet-behind-the-ears photo lab tech, another tech explained it to me thusly... he said, "Don't think of it as just 'developer.' Think of it as either 'tank solution' (which is what you actually develop your film in) or 'replenisher.'" Commercial labs, as a general rule, use replenished systems. So the vast majority of C-41 "developers" sold are replenishers. If this is what you have, and you want to use it to develop film, then you need to convert it to a "tank solution." (By using starter solution according to the instructions on the bottle.)

It sort of appears to me that you are mixing correctly (I'm not exactly certain, though). Regardless, based on your photos in post #6, something is very wrong. Assuming that the lower photo is properly developed, comparison of the edge print suggests that the top image is pretty severely underdeveloped. If it were me, I'd go back through my entire process with a fine-toothed comb, looking mainly for a dumb mistake. For example, are you reading a graduated cylinder from the wrong end, or making a wrong unit conversion, or whatever? I'm thinking something that gives you 2 or 3 times the correct starter addition.

I WOULD suspect a possible temperature error, but I see (post 6) that you ran a test several degrees too hot with no obvious difference. This strikes me as strange... I'd expect to see SOME effect.

If you don't find some significant error I think you have to consider the possibility that your developer has gone bad (this would likely be a result of the developing agent, CD-4, becoming oxidized).

I see that you're using a Jobo processor. You're not trying to run a replenished system with this, are you?

Yes I discovered I had initially made an incorrect unit conversion when mixing the chemicals for a 5 liter bottle. Ex mixing part A (a 1.5 liter bottle) and dividing it by 4. I used decimal points and when calculating not whole numbers. ( Silly mistake). So I think that solves my problem.

I am using a jobo processor, is it not possible to run a replenished system with this?

 

[Mr Bill]

I am using a jobo processor, is it not possible to run a replenished system with this?

No, I don't think so. They beat the developer up too badly (aeration). As I recall Kodak, in Z-131 publication, says single-use, only, for a rotary processor. (I checked, see top of page 3-6)

Fwiw, if you had a means of initially filling the tank with nitrogen or the like, I'd guess it might be possible to replenish developer. Probably not worth the effort, though.

 

[mshchem]

Yes I discovered I had initially made an incorrect unit conversion when mixing the chemicals for a 5 liter bottle. Ex mixing part A (a 1.5 liter bottle) and dividing it by 4. I used decimal points and when calculating not whole numbers. ( Silly mistake). So I think that solves my problem.

I am using a jobo processor, is it not possible to run a replenished system with this?

Yes, Mr Bill is correct. Kodak, back when Eastman Kodak was responsible for the technical support, they recommend NO REPLENISHMENT with rotary processing (Jobo) use single shot. I reuse and replenish the bleach, even though Eastman Kodak says use everything ONE SHOT. Fixer is cheap, Developer REPLENISHER is cheap, Bleach is expensive, loves oxygen, and a 5 liter bottle of Bleach and the bleach STARTER will last forever.

There are at least 3 different Original Eastman Kodak manuals, for Flexicolor, one of them calls out how to use a Jobo. (125px)

I would buy a new 20L Developer Replenisher, mix up the whole 20L, rack it off into absolutely full bottles (I used to use 2L soda bottles worked great, unless you store under lock and key this is a unsafe practice). The mixed replenisher keeps very well. I have a friend who drinks cheap wine, he saves his 4 liter glass bottles for me, I bought some Polyseal, conical seal phenolic caps and the bottles are amazing. Fill all the way up so there's little air, like 1/2 inch.

I use the C41RA process, if you can find the C41RA Bleach and C41RA Fixer it's much faster, this is what minilabs use.

 

[mshchem]

REPLENISHMENT NOT REPLACEMENT. DARN SPELL CHECK

 

[MattKing]

Fixed for you.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I am using a jobo processor, is it not possible to run a replenished system with this?

I agree with some of the other contributors here, and would strongly recommend against replenishment of C-41 developer in a rotary processing system. Through empirical experimentation I realised that although density can look okay initially, the colour quality of negatives becomes severely compromised very quickly.

I would suggest sticking to 3 or 4 rolls of film per 1000ml of developer solution in a Jobo (e.g. 850ml developer + 20ml of starter + 130ml plain water) - exact specification of dilution may very - sticking close to Kodak recommendations.

As has already been stated the bleach can be re-used and replenished for a long time and over many rolls. I tend to replenish the bleach 25ml per film, per run.

 

[sillo]

So you add starter to the replenisher separately before you mix a working solution? I thought you only needed starter when making a working solution for the first time with the replenisher.

Are you going to be replenishing or are you going to be using it one shot? If you're replenishing you only need to use starter to make the initial working strength solution. If you are using it one shot you need to either mix up the working strength solution with starter every time or you need to mix a large batch at working strength and use that.

IME using it one shot the replenisher stores better, so I mix up the tank solution right before I start processing each time.

I re-read and see that you are going to be using a jobo so most people will recommend using it one shot for rotary. Kodak mentions in their documents not to replenish with rotary because of the aggressive agitation and oxidation that occurs to the developer. On top of that carryover can be somewhat of an issue with a jobo so it's tough to get the replenishment rates correct.