Kill a Photo Myth for 2008

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jan 4, 2008

In the spirit of 2008 New Year's Resolutions, I propose that APUG's good action to the world at large is to finally bury the dead horses, the myths, the holy wars, and the half-truths.

Here's mine: Photographers are overly obsessed by gear to the expense of their art. When was the last time you heard a heated debate about a specific brand of brush or type of paint?

Here's the answer:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=877
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337598
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Wow! A painting forum that looks every bit like APUG: which paint is the best? what solvent? is it true that paint chemicals cause cancer? does oil painting require talent or is it just a craft?

Everyone is obsessed about the tools they use for their art. Writers care about language, pen v. typewriter v. computer; painters care about their brushes, about oil v. acrylic; wood sculptors agonize over the profuse variety of wood essences they can use, the tools to gouge their medium, etc etc.

Everyone is beleaguered by the same anxieties, and everyone is stuck in the art v. craft debate, Museum v. lobby walls, principles v. practicalities.

So let's be good artists this year and stop using our painterly friends as props for our anxieties.

Ian Tindale · Jan 4, 2008

Hang on, we fountain pen users aren't overly concerned about the specifics of which fountain pen is best, which one to get, which ones to avoid. We're pretty relaxed about the whole scene - doesn't matter which pen you get.

Everyone knows we spend all our time discussing which ink, instead.

Fintan · Jan 4, 2008

LOL they are nuts on that forum. Well nearly as bad as us anyway

Photo Engineer · Jan 4, 2008

I use a quill pen with carbon black in linseed oil as my ink. If I need color, I use quinone in solvent for green ink! Its what I grew up with.

Actually, I have used all of the above.

I forgot to add that I have a lengthy article about myths in color photography over on PN. See it there. Thanks to Oskar Ojala who helped me organize and post it.

PE

thebanana · Jan 4, 2008

I use a quill pen with carbon black in linseed oil as my ink. If I need color, I use quinone in solvent for green ink! Its what I grew up with.

Doesn't your screen get messy?

Akki14 · Jan 4, 2008

Alt process does not mean "more difficult" than normal darkroom stuff. That sunprint paper you used as a kid is just cyanotype paper. It's only two chemicals dissolved in water. You don't even need a darkroom, just a dim room or just in shade.
And you get to have the same sort of what brush is best debates at the fancy artists forum

Pinholemaster · Jan 4, 2008

I'm taking a watercolor course this spring. I'm sure my brushes will be better than yours.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Alden · Jan 4, 2008

I both paint and photograph, and I can tell you the photographer in me is very delicate and the painter a loon. Brushes make get snapped, canvases
shreaded, chairs fly, but with photographic equipment, I gently place them back into their snug little beds, then step outside and go aaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!

Photo Engineer · Jan 4, 2008

Thats like learning to coat with a coating blade, except the blade is stainless steel and weighs 1 - 2 pounds.

PE

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jan 4, 2008

PE, this must be this article:
http://photo.net/learn/color_myths.html

You are dispensed from the assignment if you wish, and can spend the year drawing in your corner of the class...

Photo Engineer · Jan 4, 2008

Michel;

The second reference is redundant as it is included in the first. Also see my photo engineering series there for some interesting work.

I am working on a similar set for B&W, but due to the pressures of emulsion making and coating, the DVD and book, I've fallen a few years behind.

PE

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jan 4, 2008

Corrected the post.

I'm looking forward to the B&W ones, and I do hope APUG will get the exclusivity!

Joe VanCleave · Jan 5, 2008

Ian Tindale said:
Hang on, we fountain pen users aren't overly concerned about the specifics of which fountain pen is best, which one to get, which ones to avoid. We're pretty relaxed about the whole scene - doesn't matter which pen you get.

Everyone knows we spend all our time discussing which ink, instead.

Well, the last time I checked, there's quite a bit of discussion, over on the Fountain Pen Forum, about smoothing scratchy nibs, which ink works the best with which nib, and what's your favorite ink blend (for us Pelikan piston-fill pen users.) Seems that man, the toolmaker, has always been fascinated by the intricacies of the things he builds and uses.

~Joe

Photo Engineer · Jan 5, 2008

I have enjoyed making my own quill pens.

And yes, I have made several using quills just to find out what it is like and how it works. Getting the little oval 'well' in the nib is difficult. It is molded into the metal ones. I love a good fountain pen.

PE

Uncle Bill · Jan 5, 2008

As a fountain pen owner/accumulator/collector, I find some people can get every bit as OCD as camera people. Actually I am curious what is the "best" ink blend for both modern and vintage Pelikans?

Bill

PS I also am member of Fountain Pen Network.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 5, 2008

Well, I think that in any art form you have to strike a balance between subject matter, hard work, and try to use the best tools you can lay your hands on without obsessing about them.
It is my opinion that when you spend too much time worrying about what gear you have, you will dilute your content. It's like buying a set of new golf clubs because your game sucks. It might help a tad bit, but it's not going to make you good.
I have made what I consider good prints from negs shot with a $20 plastic Holga, and I have made good prints from negs shot with my new Osaka 4x5 with Schneider 210mm APO Symmar glass. I don't prefer one over the other. I do know this, though: It took me a lot of hard work to get both to their final presentation. Hard work is the way in my mind.
It is good, however, to know your tools; knowing their weaknesses can be used to your advantage.
Anyway, nothing you didn't know already...
- Thomas

Photo Engineer · Jan 5, 2008

The concept of good art has more to do with photography than good equipment.

I daresay that the same is true in painting. After all, today's painters have more quality equipment than the old masters had, and yet we have fewer masterpieces today than we had (per painter) in the 1600s as an example.

Without skill and that sense of art, one can have millions in equipment and turn out nothing useful except snapshots.

PE

eddym · Jan 5, 2008

Uncle Bill said:
As a fountain pen owner/accumulator/collector, I find some people can get every bit as OCD as camera people. Actually I am curious what is the "best" ink blend for both modern and vintage Pelikans?

I like the Pelikan black ink. But I find their brown too light, so I mix it with the black to make a nice rich mocha. I use it in my 1953 M400 tortoise with F flex nib. Oh, it's such a joy to write with!
Aurora black is also good, but dries more slowly than the Pelikan. Of course, I use it in my Aurora Optima.
In my OMAS pens, I use OMAS black, or a mixture of OMAS Black with OMAS Sepia (as the Pelikan example above), and to the brown mixture I also add some OMAS Vespucci Red to make a beautiful burgundy ink.
I also use Parkers, both current and vintage (this week I'm carrying a 1946 Vacumatic Standard in black, with Pelikan black ink); a few Watermans; a beautiful Stipula Etruria, an Iris, and a Saturno; a Montegrappa sterling Reminiscence octagonal fountain pen; and a few others... about 50 in all.

Ole · Jan 5, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
... After all, today's painters have more quality equipment than the old masters had, and yet we have fewer masterpieces today than we had (per painter) in the 1600s as an example. ...

Do we?

How many mediocre paintings have been lost through the centuries? And who defines what is a "masterpiece" (I take it you mean that in the modern erroneous sense, not the original sense, since any one painter would then by definition only make one single Masterpiece)? How many of the paintings made today will be considered "masterpieces" in 400 years, and what painters will be remembered?

I would like to know the basis for your certainty that the 17th century painters were "better" than the present ones - seen as a whole.

Photo Engineer · Jan 5, 2008

Ole;

IDK, but most older paintings are of generally good quality. Today's paintings and art are speckled with lots of trash, so my generalization was just that.

PE

DarkroomExperimente · Jan 5, 2008

just for the record, I often toss my bad paintings ( even a few decent ones ) into the fireplace....partly to make life easier for art historians of the future....and because the really sucky ones deserve it

Photo Engineer · Jan 5, 2008

DarkroomExperimente said:
just for the record, I often toss my bad paintings ( even a few decent ones ) into the fireplace....partly to make life easier for art historians of the future....and because the really sucky ones deserve it

Lets hope you use no cadmium yellow or some of the other heavy metal pigments.

That can be deadly.

PE

DarkroomExperimente · Jan 5, 2008

nope...never any cadmium

sun of sand · Jan 6, 2008

I wouldn't be so quick to think that if "trashy" art was in any way acceptable back in the day that those "true" masters wouldn't have produced any of it
actually, I guess some did and only now we see them as masters

Everyone knows that the tools one uses makes no difference
You can make masterful furniture with a fork if you want to
Build a beautiful home with mud and tires
Paint with fingers or brushes that have never been washed or cared for

All that matters is your skill
If you took my clubs away and told me I had to win a round of golf against Jim -the worst golfer in the world- in order to save my life
I would tie rocks to sticks and beat the shit out of that man ..of course not on the links

winner by default

Shawn Rahman · Jan 6, 2008

Ian Tindale said:
Hang on, we fountain pen users aren't overly concerned about the specifics of which fountain pen is best, which one to get, which ones to avoid. We're pretty relaxed about the whole scene - doesn't matter which pen you get.

Everyone knows we spend all our time discussing which ink, instead.

Are you kidding me? My Parker Duofold and a couple of my Omas's will kick the crap out of anything you can come up with.

Kill a Photo Myth for 2008

Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Ian Tindale

Fintan

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thebanana

Akki14

Pinholemaster

Alden

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Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Michel Hardy-Vallée

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Joe VanCleave

Photo Engineer

Uncle Bill

Thomas Bertilsson

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eddym

Ole

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Photo Engineer

DarkroomExperimente

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DarkroomExperimente

sun of sand

Shawn Rahman

Kill a Photo Myth for 2008

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