Kickstarter prospect!

FL at CC · Sep 18, 2016

Hey there, APUG friends! As we are all here on such a great forum sharing our love for all things film photography it gives me great pleasure to express albeit informally to my fellow analogue shooters! Between myself and a few friends here in Melbourne, Australia, we've decided something should be done to inspire Kodak to begin manufacturing E-6 emulsions again, namely Ektachrome. The analogue photography world has faced many losses with the ceasing of production of countless legendary products which we've all enjoyed - Polaroid, Cibachrome and Kodak's chromes. We're all super excited to express our ambition to establish a Kickstarter initiative for Kodak to reinstate Ektachrome emulsions E100G, 64 and also the legendary and much missed Plus-X 125. We're just expressing a small shout out for those that would be interested in supporting our venture! Typically, the initiative would be in the form of a petition with some 50,000 minimum signatures to compile to put forth to Kodak. The idea is loose at the moment, however, once my friends and I have an indication of the degree of support and interest, contact will be made with Kodak personally to propose this brilliant project!

Definitely chime in and tell us your opinions and ideas! Keep chromes alive!!!

Frank

RattyMouse · Sep 18, 2016

FL at CC said:
Hey there, APUG friends! As we are all here on such a great forum sharing our love for all things film photography it gives me great pleasure to express albeit informally to my fellow analogue shooters! Between myself and a few friends here in Melbourne, Australia, we've decided something should be done to inspire Kodak to begin manufacturing E-6 emulsions again, namely Ektachrome. The analogue photography world has faced many losses with the ceasing of production of countless legendary products which we've all enjoyed - Polaroid, Cibachrome and Kodak's chromes. We're all super excited to express our ambition to establish a Kickstarter initiative for Kodak to reinstate Ektachrome emulsions E100G, 64 and also the legendary and much missed Plus-X 125. We're just expressing a small shout out for those that would be interested in supporting our venture! Typically, the initiative would be in the form of a petition with some 50,000 minimum signatures to compile to put forth to Kodak. The idea is loose at the moment, however, once my friends and I have an indication of the degree of support and interest, contact will be made with Kodak personally to propose this brilliant project!

Definitely chime in and tell us your opinions and ideas! Keep chromes alive!!!

Frank

Two words: Film Ferrrania.

FL at CC · Sep 18, 2016

RattyMouse said:
Two words: Film Ferrrania.

Oh yes, they're definitely doing something incredible hey!

Cholentpot · Sep 18, 2016

I miss Plus-X 125. I still have a few rolls labeled as Pan-X or X-pan 125 floating around in the freezer.

FL at CC · Sep 18, 2016

Cholentpot said:
I miss Plus-X 125. I still have a few rolls labeled as Pan-X or X-pan 125 floating around in the freezer.

Mee too!! Plus-X is my all-time favourite black and white neg of them all. I have 5 rolls left from a 2008 batch in my freezer also.

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 18, 2016

Good luck! Fuji's sales of chromes is declining, in spite of Kodak's withdrawal a few years back. With Film Ferrania currently undertaking a project of resurrecting an E6 emulsion, what do you have in terms of strategy to present to Kodak that will convince them to move into a declining market?
That's a tough sell, and you need a strong financial plan for them to even consider it. A Kickstarter is fine, but have you analyzed how much money they actually need? Me knowingly the coating machines are no longer in operation, for all we know they might even have been scrapped.

I don't wish to discourage you, but what is your concrete plan to execute on this idea?

FL at CC · Sep 18, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Good luck! Fuji's sales of chromes is declining, in spite of Kodak's withdrawal a few years back. With Film Ferrania currently undertaking a project of resurrecting an E6 emulsion, what do you have in terms of strategy to present to Kodak that will convince them to move into a declining market?
That's a tough sell, and you need a strong financial plan for them to even consider it. A Kickstarter is fine, but have you analyzed how much money they actually need? Me knowingly the coating machines are no longer in operation, for all we know they might even have been scrapped.

I don't wish to discourage you, but what is your concrete plan to execute on this idea?

Definitely a good question! The idea is still in 'seed' form. My friends and I have talked about Kodak taking into consideration the fiscal positions and viability to reintroduce such films. No doubt E-6 emulsions are a very costly product to make and the investment is enormous. At this stage the idea is merely on a social interest level in throwing around the idea. If the interest from film directors to promote film production for cinematic purposes and the introduction of their new Super 8 system, perhaps select products could viably be considered for reissue/reintroduction given public interest could be to the extent that it would whet Kodak's appetite and interests to appeal to popular demand. Who knows? It could be in Kodak's best interest to boost their public image this way. And that film/analogue photography is becoming increasingly 'trendy', it could very well play into their hands.

AgX · Sep 18, 2016

FL at CC said:
We're all super excited to express our ambition to establish a Kickstarter initiative for Kodak to reinstate Ektachrome emulsions E100G, 64 and also the legendary and much missed Plus-X 125.

It is doubtful if Kodak even can go back to the still film market, due to contract arrangement

Cholentpot · Sep 18, 2016

FL at CC said:
Mee too!! Plus-X is my all-time favourite black and white neg of them all. I have 5 rolls left from a 2008 batch in my freezer also.

I also have a few rolls of frozen Ektar 25. I don't want to waste them, maybe some day I'll take a trip out to some nice looking place and burn them up there...

thuggins · Sep 18, 2016

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Good luck! Fuji's sales of chromes is declining, in spite of Kodak's withdrawal a few years back.

Do you have numbers to back this up? I suspect that many people (like me) stocked up on large quantities of Ektachrome and Provia 400 when they were still available and are shooting thru those stocks. Polaroid maintained that their product was dead and used that as an excuse to unceremoniously kill it. Now we have a new instant film and instant cameras. And from everything I've read about the Impossible project, making instant film is a heck of lot more complicated.

Slide film has long been a niche product; as negative films improved they were able to "approach" the quality of slides and any yahoo (with any camera) can shoot negatives and get the exposure close enough. About 5-6 years ago I asked my local professional lab about their E6 volume in the face of d!%!+@l. The guy replied that E6 processing was noticeably down, but it had nothing to do with d!%!+@l. The decrease in E6 was matched by an increase in C41 as pros went to the "more forgiving" medium.

In addition to Provia and Velvia, we currently have Agfa Precisa and Lomographaphy XPro/Rollie PRO (I suspect these are the same film; see my separate post.). As more folks take up film as an artistic pursuit, the technical challenge of shooting slides and the sheer beauty and self contained nature of the finished product would make this an apparent growth field.

I still have a couple dozen rolls of VS in the fridge (after shooting about a dozen last month). I always loved Extachrome's palette and would love to have them back in the mix.

calebarchie · Sep 18, 2016

Melbourne? Let me guess, you're a hipster.

GL

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 18, 2016

Between myself and a few friends here in Melbourne, Australia, we've decided something should be done to inspire Kodak to begin manufacturing E-6 emulsions again, namely Ektachrome.

Ektachrome!? Tell him he's dreamin'!
It's not going to happen. Throw all the money you want or can at Kodak, but the reality is that E6 does not have long in this world. Use it while it is still here (Fuji, Rollei, et al) rather than chase windmills.

FL at CC · Sep 18, 2016

calebarchie said:
Melbourne? Let me guess, you're a hipster.

GL

Sorry mate, far from a hipster.

calebarchie · Sep 18, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
Between myself and a few friends here in Melbourne, Australia, we've decided something should be done to inspire Kodak to begin manufacturing E-6 emulsions again, namely Ektachrome.

Ektachrome!? Tell him he's dreamin'!
It's not going to happen. Throw all the money you want or can at Kodak, but the reality is that E6 does not have long in this world. Use it while it is still here (Fuji, Rollei, et al) rather than chase windmills.

Sweet talkin' works particularly well

FL at CC · Sep 18, 2016

calebarchie said:
Sweet talkin' works particularly well

Hehehe indeedy!

RPC · Sep 18, 2016

thuggins said:
Slide film has long been a niche product; as negative films improved they were able to "approach" the quality of slides and any yahoo (with any camera) can shoot negatives and get the exposure close enough. About 5-6 years ago I asked my local professional lab about their E6 volume in the face of d!%!+@l. The guy replied that E6 processing was noticeably down, but it had nothing to do with d!%!+@l. The decrease in E6 was matched by an increase in C41 as pros went to the "more forgiving" medium.

Due to superior dynamic range and dye impurity masking, color negatives have always been superior to slides. It is because of the superior dynamic range that "any yahoo" can get close enough exposure with negatives and it is a more forgiving medium. Unless you to intend to project them, there is little reason to shoot slides over negatives. Printing them today is difficult and has always given inferior results anyway to negatives, and one can sc*n negatives as easy, if not easier, than slides. It is no wonder pros switched.

Thomas Bertilsson · Sep 18, 2016

thuggins said:
Do you have numbers to back this up? I suspect that many people (like me) stocked up on large quantities of Ektachrome and Provia 400 when they were still available and are shooting thru those stocks. Polaroid maintained that their product was dead and used that as an excuse to unceremoniously kill it. Now we have a new instant film and instant cameras. And from everything I've read about the Impossible project, making instant film is a heck of lot more complicated.

Why else would they be discontinuing emulsions?

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2015/04/23/manufacturers-talk-state-film-photography-industry/

Scroll down a bit to see "Like Kodak, Fujifilm's sales in film have also fallen quite a bit - but the company innovated and changed. These days, they mostly focus on their X-Series digital cameras which are mostly award winning products".

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/investors/ir_events/earnings_presentations/index.html
Download their latest earnings release. On page 5 you can read how their imaging solutions were down significantly; the only thing increasing in sales were Instax products, and more modern things like making instant prints from smartphones.

Fuji seems to be unwilling to release numbers specific to E6 films or even C-41 films.

mshchem · Sep 18, 2016

Absolutely not going to happen. All of the supplier network is gone. Ektachrome requires scale that just isn't there any longer. I say concentrate on keeping what we have. If you want a 125 speed old school black and white buy from the current manufacturers. It's a miracle that Fujichrome exists. Who knows they may just be selling off frozen stock. If Ferrania gets, and can stay in production that's maybe viable because they have a lab scale coating line.
I pray we can keep what we have from Kodak Alaris buy and shoot all you can of what they make now if you want to keep it around.
I miss all this stuff especially Cibachrome, but is unfortunate that it's time has passed.
Best Regards Mike

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 18, 2016

RPC said:
Due to superior dynamic range and dye impurity masking, color negatives have always been superior to slides. It is because of the superior dynamic range that "any yahoo" can get close enough exposure with negatives and it is a more forgiving medium. Unless you to intend to project them, there is little reason to shoot slides over negatives. Printing them today is difficult and has always given inferior results anyway to negatives, and one can sc*n negatives as easy, if not easier, than slides. It is no wonder pros switched.

LOL. Then there are the pros who did not switch, going straight from transparency to Ilfochrome Classic to hybridised processes and getting better results than the old maven Ilfochrome provided or was capable of. It's not rocket science as to the reasons why given that media's long, aggravating litany of problems.
There remain a lot of pros are shooting slides and printing either traditionally (not as common) or via alternative processes, including those with a magazine/gravure background. It's not enough to keep E6 going though — we are well past the halcyon days of film and only chugging along with a few converts and enthusiasts and Fuji's ubiquitous Instax (and now Leica's own iteration of instant film cameras). My own prediction is that Fuji will be out of film altogether by 2020.

I suggest that the OP run his idea past Ron Mowray/Photo Engineer here on APUG, for a qualified opinion on any potential at Kodak.

Andre Noble · Sep 18, 2016

Three to four years ago I put my money where my mouth is and signed my petition to Kodak with cash. Two chest freezers full of many emulsions. The 120 Kodak Ektachromes I snatched up Samy's camera's very last stock. About 260 rolls, equally split between G and VS. They were still fresh, and Samy's made it clear no one else was buying them. Everyone was in to investing in the latest DSLR.

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 18, 2016

Why don't you try to get Kodak to bring back HEI?? There's enough conventional B/W and colour out there. There is no REAL IR film. I would be first in line!

unityofsaints · Sep 19, 2016

Let's focus on keeping Velvia and Provia alive...

thuggins · Sep 19, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
LOL. Then there are the pros who did not switch,

Thank you Mr. Fish. I was about to post a reply to the individual who has apparently never seen slide film, but you did a much better job.

Film is beginning to follow a curve that all products go thru when they are "replaced" with new technology. Everyone throws out their old stuff so they look like they're "with it", and this is encouraged by manufacturers that intentionally stop making the previous technology.

When electricity first came to a town all the citizens would get together and have a lamp smashing party, where they threw away their oil lamps and candles. Now no one lights primarily by oil or candles today, but pretty much every house has candles or oil lights because we know the electricity sometimes goes out. When CD's first came out they pushed vinyl off the shelves in less than a year. Now more music is put out on vinyl than CD's. And those are two examples where the new technology was actually better than the old, which is not the case of photographs and d!%!+@l images.

There is a whole generation now that has never seen a roll of film, a mounted slide, or a strip of negatives. At some point they will discover the attraction of having control over their own images, rather than surrendering that to a software program. Will film ever be used for casual snapshots again? Of course not, but that is not a bad thing. It will enjoy life as a serious hobby and artistic medium.

RPC · Sep 19, 2016

thuggins said:
Thank you Mr. Fish. I was about to post a reply to the individual who has apparently never seen slide film, but you did a much better job.

Yes, I have seen slide film and used it, but other than projecting it, saw no use for it for the reasons I said above.

The motion picture industry has seen reversal (slide) film and color negative film, and from the beginning chose color negative film to shoot movies on. If reversal film is better than negative film, why did they choose negative? The reasons I said above--superior dynamic range and color reproduction.

Negative film never had to approach the quality of slides--I see it as the other way around.

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 19, 2016

RPC said:
You apparantly have never

Yes, I have seen slide film and used it, but other than projecting it, saw no use for it for the reasons I said above.

The motion picture industry has seen reversal (slide) film and color negative film, and from the beginning chose color negative film to shoot movies on. If reversal film is better than negative film, why did they choose negative? The reasons I said above--superior dynamic range and color reproduction.

Negative film never had to approach the quality of slides--I see it as the other way around.

The negative-vs-slide film argument has been around a long, long time. Remember that by and large, the Ilfochrome Classic printing was almost always made from transparency, commonly 5x4, 10x8 and bigger, additional to 35mm and the whole range of medium format sizes. I never saw any negatives being printed, other than internegs being prepared for normal contrast matching. It was all tranny film coming from the Big Wigs (Ken Duncan, Peter Lik, Peter Dombrovskis, Ted Mead, Rob Blakers...so many others) and Little Nippers eager to get their hands on "the best" (at that time!) printing the world could offer.

Things have changed. People born at the dawning of the century really have been born into the cradle of digital and have no concept of traditional analogue photography, much less what a roll of 35mm is used for -- it's seen as a relict of a quaint, bygone era. Their prints come from Fujifilm auto kiosks (or the less common Kodak ones). Effectively, these kids have been brought up in a upgrade/throwaway culture, rather than appreciating photography as an holistic craft, producing work to be proud of and to keep for a long, long time. I don't deny that there are emerging "hipsters" in the Millennial ranks who are going to cast their eye onto film, but they are still a very tiny minority as opposed to the analogue ranks that have been involved in traditional photography ... since Noah lost his outboard. And those hipster ranks seem more interested in Instax than Velvia and its ilk.

Kickstarter prospect!

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