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Just picked up a Canon 7, moved from a Canon P

  1. Few years back I sold my P which I absolutely loved but needed the money.

    The only rangefinder I kept around for a while was a Fed 2A and three russian lens. (though I really should have kept my CVs and vintage Canon LTMs ... but money... )

    So when I went to reacquire a P, it seemed like the price was still up there considering. So I decided to see how I would like the 7, seeing as it's basically a P upgrade with a meter and different style viewfinder.

    This one I picked up, while it did have a dent in the back corner by the rewind (possibly dropped, especially with a little ding by the lever), which was quickly resolved by the seller with a price adjustment.

    Fortunately everything else appears to work, shutter speeds, meter, timer, advance, rangefinder coupling, viewfinder frames, etc. And I just adjusted the vertical alignment ever so slightly (was mainly lined up at less than 3 feet, but vertically off elsewhere, now it's spot-on for everything a little under 3 feet up to infinity, with only a sliver off the vertical under 3 feet). Coupling seemed good when I checked against a ground glass.

    I haven't had a chance to go out and about with it just yet, but I have a feeling I'm going to like it just as much as the P. The P will always have a special place in my heart, but I think the 7 will grow on me just as much.

    Right now I just have :

    - Fed Industar-10 50/3.5 Collapsible (gaffer tape just behind the front to keep it from going back in too far when adapted on my olympus, fits the 7 collapsed as long as I mount extended first, and keep the "FED" logo at 12'clock when collapsing)

    Was super-hazy and very very low contrast when I had it for a few years, the just recently decided to go ahead and open it up (very easy, two elements thru the rear spanner, cleaned up, no haze, good sharpness, decent out of camera contrast). Seems to work best on my Fed 2A.

    - Industar-61L/D 55/2.8 which doesn't have the greatest focus ring gets a tad stiff going down to 2m or closer. Originally I thought there might be some kind of growth inside the lens, so like the I10 I disassembled it thru the rear pretty easily as before, cleaned which mostly seemed like dust, re-assembled and seemed fine. (Seems to have better contrast than the I10, but not as sharp).

    - Jupiter 11 135/4 My favorite telephoto even on my Olympus E-M5 (micro-4/3rd) sharp as a tack at f/4 and good contrast.

    But soon I'll have a Canon Serenar 35mm f/2.8 Mk I to cover my wide angle need on the LTM (would love to get the CV Ultron 35/1.7 back, but $$$, so I'll see how the Canon 35/2.8 does, least aesthetically it'll match the 7 like a charm)

    Just thinking if I continue down the path of re-acquisition if I should try to get the Canon 50/1.8 Serenar I originally had with my P, or maybe look at getting a post-1950s Summarit 50mm, or perhaps some other variant of a faster 50 (f/2 or faster).

    Without further ado, some pictures I shot of the 7 with the Industar-61L/D attached (Will do the same bit different setting once I get the Serenar).






  2. The Canon 50mm f1.8 is good. Many people like it.
    The 1.8 often has haze. But I've found it is pretty easy disassemble and clean.

    I prefer the f1.4 on the 7. Perhaps because it handles better. But it more money.
  3. Get out there and enjoy your camera, and quit worrying/caring about what brand/model it is. Just burn film, and burn pixels sharing the images.
  4. I used a 7S for years, along with a Leica IIIG, the Leica was built like a tank, but the Canon was just so easy to use. I used both Canon and Leica lens along with a stray Minolta and of all things a Wolllensake, it was a 90, undercoated, not intended as soft focus but nice for portraiture.
  5. I have a 7, great camera, and fun to use. Go shoot film!

    ...and I have to ask - what is that background, and where can I get one!??!
  6. .... Ran into a problem I was wondering why the framing sometimes seems good and sometimes doesn't seem right. The seller (which was sold in 'excellent condition') said it's probably parallax... even though both the P and 7 are parallax corrected.

    Then I noticed the frame line moved when the shutter clicked, so I tried keeping my eye to the viewfinder while I rotated from landscape to portrait orientation and noticed the frame lines moving.

    ... how does one fix that? Kind of got that sick to my stomach feel, he already partially refunded me because of the dent on the back corner that wasn't in the description or picture (makes me wonder if it's been dropped) But everything else seems to work, shutter, timer, meter, RF focusing, etc. But the frameline seems like it's sheer guess work (more so for the 50mm)
  7. it's a holographic poster board, around 5 or 6 dollars at like Staples or Office max.
  8. Youxin won't work on the Canon 7. I asked. I have a 7 and a 7s. Ross Yerkes cla'd mine. Good work, not expensive, usually a 2 week turnaround. (323) 256-1018.

    I'll bet if you check the shutter speeds they are slow. In my opinion you can't buy a 50 year old camera and reasonably expect everything to work properly. When I buy an old camera or lens (and all of my cameras and lenses are old!) I factor in the cost of a CLA.
  9. Yea I asked him too a while back.

    Was hoping for most of the functional stuff to work, but maybe might be dead in other areas like the timer (works), or the meter (works and oddly seems accurate compared to my Minolta Flash Meter IV). I actually went thru the shutter speeds and they seem to be accurate even on the slower sides. Still haven't gotten my color test negs back (bad roads, etc delayed me getting out there).

    Thing is in terms of factoring in the cost of a CLA, I don't even know what that cost is right now for a 7, nearest I could tell was $275 (keh) since that's the only place I could see a quote and that their flat rate for anything RF. Hence why I was trying to figure out a cost, because at the price of about $100 spent, if the CLA was around 100 or so, then it would put me up into the expected norm (well my acceptability anyways) for something fully working.

    Ofer on the RF board far as the frame lines sliding around, someone suggested it was the v-shape frame that came loose (best case scenario, lesser case being if said spring wire broke), and wasn't springing back against the parallax adjustment.
  10. Edit: It's not a spring. It's the prism in the rear moving about. Will get video/picture shortly
  11. [​IMG]

    Couple views of the front.



    And a video

    Open to suggestions on an adhesive or other means to hold the prism correctly in place.

    Would shellac, or some rosin work? (The rosin is thread sealant I use for vintage fountain pens to seal like vacumatics etc, which can be dissolved with some alcohol, and only requires hot water to loosen as opposed to shellac which requires a heat gun. Neither one are CAs so they don't vapor).
  12. The plan:

    Going to use an Oben table top tripod weighted down fitted with a manfrotto 496RC ball head to hold the camera in a specific angle when doing this so that the prism does not shift while applying anything.

    EDIT/FIXED after noting that several parts of the camera were already shellac'd (glass elements to metal mostly) I went ahead and shellac'd the red and the blue lines letting it dry for about an hour before reassembling. Everything seems fine (hardest part was getting the shutter selection dial back in the correct position with the correct ISO and meter reading selected).

    Initial test looks good, no movement of the frame lines except when focusing (normal parallax movement). Now the only thing left I gotta do is re-check the rangefinder calibration against the ground glass and see where the actual frame falls vs the projected frame lines.

    Going to let it sit for a few more hours to ensure the shellac is fully hardened before messing with it further.

  13. Good luck! Seems like a decent plan.
  14. Still need to find someone to CLA the Canon 7. After I used the shutter-speed app (along with a photoplug addon) I'm getting about these readings (flashlight on back of the camera, photo plug sticking into the opening of the lens mount to keep it out of the light)

    Set = actual

    1 second = 1/1.3
    1/2 = 1/2.1
    1/4 = 1/3.3
    1/8 = 1/6.1
    1/15 = 1/17.5
    1/30 = 1/26.6
    1/60 = 1/47.4
    1/125 = 1/92
    1/250 = 1/153.9
    1/500 = 1/227.6
    1/1000 = 1/289.5

    Assuming I'm charting it correctly (Start of the first peak, to the start of the second peak)


    My other rangefinder which I was probably going to use for class if not the 7 doesn't fare well was my Fed 2A (Which I know was serviced in 2012), but it's speeds are off too :

    1/25 = 1/18.9
    1/50 = 1/37.1
    1/100 = 1/55.5
    1/250 = 1/98.5
    1/500 = 1/135.5

    Mercury II also tests slow/off (though wondering if it's the plug or if everything I can use is just off)

    1/20 = 1/15.8
    1/30 = 1/24.5
    1/40 = 1/32.1
    1/60 = 1/46.6
    1/100 = 1/173.5
    1/200 = 1/107.0
    1/300 = 1/125.5
    1/1000 = 1/188.1

    Even my Pentax MZ-6 (an electronic shutter SLR) seems off at higher speeds... perhaps I'm not getting a good reading? (has 1/109 for 1/125, 172.4 for 1/250, and 1/307.5 for 1/500, but has 1/2 for 1/2 and 1/59.1 for 1/60)


    Tested each shutter speed 4x (for checking consistency versus erratic), thru the back, with the lens left on (as not to create such a high peak). App is only designed for up to 1/500th, though I can see the waveform clearly at speeds above. (it just won't let you save a camera profile above 1/500th)

    1/1,000 = 1/193, 1/230, 1/211, 1/221

    Set Speed (Average Deviation) = Actual Speed

    1/500 (+4/3) = 1/191.1 (+4/3), 1/170 (+5/3), 1/180 (+4/3), 1/185 (+4/3)
    1/250 (+1) = 1/135.6 (+1), 1/150 (+2/3), 1/133.6 (+1), 1/140 (+1)
    1/125 (+2/3) = 1/81.6 (+2/3), 1/85.6 (+2/3), 1/88.2 (+2/3), 1/84 (+2/3)
    1/60 (+1/3) = 1/46.9 (+1/3), 1/45.5 (+1/3), 1/49.9 (+1/3), 1/46.4 (+1/3)
    1/30 (~) = 1/26.8 (~), 1/26.8 (~), 1/26.8 (~), 1/26.2 (+1/3)
    1/15 (-1/3) = 1/17.6 (-1/3), 1/18 (-1/3), 1/17.6 (-1/3), 1/17.8 (-1/3)
    1/8 (-1/3) = 1/6.2 (-1/3), 1/6.3 (-1/3), 1/6.2 (-1/3), 1/6.2 (-1/3)
    1/4 (+1/3) = 1/3.4 (+1/3), 1/3.3 (+1/3), 1/3.3 (+1/3), 1/3.3 (+1/3)
    1/2 (~) = 1/2.2 (~), 1/2.2 (~), 1/2.2 (~), 1/2.2 (~)
    1" (-1/3) = 1/1.3 (-1/3), 1/1.3, 1/1.3, 1/1.3

    Least it's consistent and I know where it's at. Guess not *that* bad when you consider all the speeds under 1/500th are within a stop of deviation, most of them within a third. Kind of sucks though I don't really have a 1/1,000th to work with, since it's essentially the same speed as 1/500th, just ever so slightly faster.

    Are there different springs/mechanism of the Canon 7 for the 'fast' and 'slow' speeds? Like their target? Since those seem to be both the 1/30th and 1/2 nearly spot on.
  15. Based on the results of the Mercury II test, I suspect some of the error is in the measuring equipment or technique. The good engineering and simplicity of the original Mercury shutter resulted in better accuracy than its contemporaries. The Harvard College Observatory chose an early Mercury shutter over Leica and Contax because of its consistency, accuracy, and durability in Solar movies. This shutter had recorded 112,000 exposures in temperatures down to zero at the time of the observatory's report. Another independent test of the time showed a 5% error for the top speed of a Mercury and nearly 50% errors for Argus, Contax, and Leica top speeds. The source for this is The Univex Story by Cynthia A. Repinski, available online for a wide variety of prices.
    Focal plane shutters like those in Canon and Leica use a clockwork retard system for the shutter speeds that will sync with electronic flash, and a different system for the higher speeds. Thus, the accuracy of each system is largely independent of the other.
  16. I'll retest the mercury when I get home, according to the creator of the photo plug and app that goes with it, says you're supposed to stick the sensor behind the shutter, with the lens still attached, and go that route (which is what I did for the Canon 7 testing at the edit).

    But I was in the same mindset that the large rotary shutter should be pretty accurate even after all this time just because of how it was made and the way it works (a fixed slit diameter), if one speed would be off, then they would all be off by the same degree if it was just a tension issue, but the 1/20th to 1/60th speeds appear to be close approximates to what they should be.

    The app and phototransistor link : http://photoplug.de
  17. Oh, I posted this over on the RFF side yesterday:


    I developed the P3200 roll that was in it earlier today, aside from the old expired roll (expired in 2004, and was not refrigerated) having a darker base fog, it appears the last couple frames I shot (parking garage), which I know to be 1/30th as I just shot them the night before last, and they were based off the meter reading, appears to be spot on for the target of ISO 1600 (I developed at the usual 3200 intending to overexpose since it was an old roll).

    Used HC-110 Dil. B, 68F for 10.5 minutes, brisk agitation once every minute. Gritty. But least usable, relatively speaking.

    All were with the Canon 50mm f/1.8 Type 6 (Serenar optics, 8 blade aperture with a curved-inward octagon shape, newer alloy body).


    Focus point on next two at the square arrangement of bricks.



    Focus point was on the "V" in Devos.


    Focus point was the far wall at the top of the ramp.


    Focus point was the printed paper above the card swipe.


    I'll either try FP4+ or some Kodak Ultratec (ISO 10, ektar base orthochromatic film) next.