Is 120 film more scatch resistance than 35mm?

[Treymac]

Hey guys. I've been noticing that there is a big difference between the 35mm film that I've developed, and 120 film that I've had developed, in terms of scratch resistance.

I can only come to two conclusions: either 35mm film is more susceptible to scratches, or when I send 120 film out to be developed they use chemicals that protect the film better than what I use in the darkroom on 35mm.

What do you guys think?

Every picture that I develop and print always has scratch marks. It's getting really annoying. It's so hard to keep them without picking up scratches.

Also, can sliding the film in the negative carrier while it is closed scratch the film?

 

[AgX]

Isn't that differnce in scratches on type 120 and 135 not just a matter of enlargement?

There is no difference in film constriction that could cause a difference.
The only cause could be different handling.

 

[JBrunner]

On a bigger negative scratches and dirt look smaller, and therefore less apparent at the same print size. That said, it sounds like you may have a handling problem as well, as AgX opined.

And yes, sliding film around against any surface can cause abrasion. Even a smooth surface can cause scratches if there is dirt on the film.

 

[WetMogwai]

Remove one of the variables. Get a 120 reel. It might fit your current tank. Try processing it yourself. If it is a handling problem, you should see similar results, though with more surface area, an equal quantity of scratches will cover a smaller percentage of the film.

 

[Treymac]

Ok, thanks guys. I thought maybe the place that does my 120 film might use some kind of extra protective chemical that coats the film, if there is such a thing.

Another thing that I thought of might be that when I roll the film onto the developer tank spool that goes into the canister, might be an area that I introduce scratches and spots onto the negatives. I imagine negatives are extremely sensitive at this stage.

Also, I think that maybe the anti-hilation layer might not always be getting removed. Sometimes after I finish and take my film off, there is stringy gunk on the film, which could possibly rub on the negatives when I try removing it.

PS. JBrunner, your developing videos are awesome. It's nice to see another process besides the one that were taught in the class.

 

[clayne]

Also, I think that maybe the anti-hilation layer might not always be getting removed. Sometimes after I finish and take my film off, there is stringy gunk on the film, which could possibly rub on the negatives when I try removing it.

PS. JBrunner, your developing videos are awesome. It's nice to see another process besides the one that were taught in the class.

Stringy gunk? Something is very wrong in your process then. The film should come out of the tank with absolutely nothing on it.

 

[fschifano]

Also, can sliding the film in the negative carrier while it is closed scratch the film?

Yes. There's at least part of your answer.

 

[bdial]

The film isn't particularly more susceptible to scratches in the camera than otherwise, but the felt light trap on 35 mm cartridges, and the round trip the film makes out of the cartridge and back in offer more chances for scratches to occur. It sounds like most of your scratch problem is in general handling, one way to eliminate the camera as a possiblity would be to get a roll from the 35 commercially processed. If the results are similar to what you've encountered with the 120, then you know it's your developing/printing procedure.

The anti-halation is a dye that washes out in the pre-soak, or the developer. It never ends up as stringy gunk. If you are using Photo-flo pre-mixed (the best way, IMO) and re-using it (not necessarily so good) it might be growing things, mix some fresh. Or you might have other chemistry growing things. I would start off with making new batch of all chemistry, with a thorough cleaning or replacement of the bottles.
What color is the stringy gunk?

Finally, the brand of film makes a difference, Ilford, Kodak and Fuji are the best at resisting scratches.
Other things to consider, do you wipe or squeege the wet film? Is your water filtered?

 

[naugastyle]

Wow. I have no suggestions but am just fascinated with the concept of stringy junk on film and wanted to follow along.

 

[michaelbsc]

... there is stringy gunk on the film, which could possibly rub on the negatives when I try removing it.

What film are you using? I know some folks, including me, have compalined that occasionally Efke has a gelatinous emulsion, especially if you don't use a hardening fixer. I think ADOX is the same film. Other old style emulsions may behave the same way. Modern film like Kodak T-max or Ilford Delta should *NOT* have this problem.

(I simply be very careful with the Efke, let it dry, and it hardens upon drying to look and behave just like any other film.)

MB