IR film and 4x5 film holders

George Papantoniou · May 20, 2006

Has anyone heard of the urban legend that states that not all 4x5 plastic (lisco, fidelity) film holders are safe for IR film ?

I remember reading something about it back when I was reading threads on Buffaloe's forum, saying that the ones that have three dots on the dark slide are unsafe and the ones that have five are safe, or the other way around...

I still have to find something creative to do with the 100 sheets of HIE I still have in the freezer... (don't ask me to give them to you, that's not creative !)

donbga · May 20, 2006

George Papantoniou said:
Has anyone heard of the urban legend that states that not all 4x5 plastic (lisco, fidelity) film holders are safe for IR film ?

I remember reading something about it back when I was reading threads on Buffaloe's forum, saying that the ones that have three dots on the dark slide are unsafe and the ones that have five are safe, or the other way around...

I still have to find something creative to do with the 100 sheets of HIE I still have in the freezer... (don't ask me to give them to you, that's not creative !)

That's not an urban legend. 5 dots are safe.

You might try exposing the film in your camera. How is that for a creative idea?

Dracotype · May 20, 2006

Knowing the legend, I would say, that if the holder is light tight, then it is safe for infrared film. I wouldn't think there would be any significant difference from normal film. After all, large format loading procedures are all done in the dark, so why would there be a problem? (Just watch, famous last words...)

Drew

donbga · May 20, 2006

Dracotype said:
Knowing the legend, I would say, that if the holder is light tight, then it is safe for infrared film. I wouldn't think there would be any significant difference from normal film. After all, large format loading procedures are all done in the dark, so why would there be a problem? (Just watch, famous last words...)

Drew

This is no myth, not all holders are IR proof.

colrehogan · May 20, 2006

Have you tried pointing an IR remote at a holder positioned between you and a tv set and then trying to say change channels? I know that probably sounds corny, but it might be worth a try. If it changes the channels, then it's not IR proof.

Claire Senft · May 20, 2006

HIE works really nicely in a Leica M3.

Jim Jones · May 20, 2006

colrehogan said:
Have you tried pointing an IR remote at a holder positioned between you and a tv set and then trying to say change channels? I know that probably sounds corny, but it might be worth a try. If it changes the channels, then it's not IR proof.

Film should be much more sensitive than an IR remote control receiver. As I recall, dark slides with five raised dots block IR. However, I couldn't verify this in a couple editions of Graphic Graflex Photography. Also, safe darkslides may be installed in unsafe film holders. Even though IR film is loaded in a darkroom, the holder is subsequently handled where there is enough IR for photography. I wouldn't trust many focusing cloths to block IR, either.

donbga · May 20, 2006

donbga said:
This is no myth, not all holders are IR proof.

I might also point out that not all bellows are IR proof. Because of that I had a special IR proof bellows made for my Wisner 4x5 traditional which can with a leather bellows.

George Papantoniou · May 21, 2006

donbga said:
I might also point out that not all bellows are IR proof. Because of that I had a special IR proof bellows made for my Wisner 4x5 traditional which can with a leather bellows.

WOW !! so, maybe my Linhof's bellows might be unsafe ??? I don't think I can get linhof to manufacture a new, IR-lightsafe bellows for me !! How about the Horseman ? I've got two accordion-bellows (a long and a short) and a bag WA one. Will one of them be safe ? Although I don't really wish to have to carry the monorail around to make IR pictures, I might use it for portraits or nudes with my flashes (I'll put a deep red gelatin on the flash and see what it'll give with IR film)...

George Papantoniou · May 21, 2006

Claire Senft said:
HIE works really nicely in a Leica M3.

Claire, I think you're getting a bit paranoid with my Leica M3 issue. You'll end up by annoying me and I might do something stupid like selling it (or giving it to you

After all, what's the point in making post-stamp size IR negs ?

George Papantoniou · May 21, 2006

donbga said:
You might try exposing the film in your camera. How is that for a creative idea?

Hey, Don... how stupid of me not to have thought of that !! Thanks for the idea, I always appreciate a fellow photographer who is not afraid to share his/her creative insight with his/her fellows...

Steve Bell · May 21, 2006

Thanks for the info on the 5 dot holders being IR proof, all my Fidelity Elite's have 5. Next time I order film I'll be getting a box of Maco 4x5 IR, then I'll find out if the bellows on my Toyo 45A are IR proof. I previously not heard anything bad about them.

glbeas · May 21, 2006

Yeah, you have to be aware of the kind of materials in the photo gear when shooting IR. I bought a Calumet 6x12 roll film holder once with the intention of using it for shooting Konica IR in it. I found out very quickly it's darkslide was not IR opaque and it's seals leaked IR in a bad way. I traded it for my Anba. Some of the older wood holders are suspect too because wood veneer is translucent to IR. Thicker wood seems to do okay. And be sure your darkroom has solid walls in that respect, a cardboard or visquine plastic blockout over a window may be merely a sheer curtain at IR frequencies. I recommend a layer of heavy duty aluminum foil over the window first if using those materials, even better is a sheetrock panel set into the windowframe.

Claire Senft · May 21, 2006

Go ahead..make my day..do somethiing stupid. Your loss is my grain.

Pete H · May 21, 2006

George Papantoniou said:
WOW !! so, maybe my Linhof's bellows might be unsafe ??? I don't think I can get linhof to manufacture a new, IR-lightsafe bellows for me !! How about the Horseman ? I've got two accordion-bellows (a long and a short) and a bag WA one. Will one of them be safe ? Although I don't really wish to have to carry the monorail around to make IR pictures, I might use it for portraits or nudes with my flashes (I'll put a deep red gelatin on the flash and see what it'll give with IR film)...

I have used Maco 820c in my Horseman 5x4 with bag bellows & long accordion with no problems (Fidelity film holders). I'd say go for it!

George Papantoniou · May 21, 2006

Pete H said:
I have used Maco 820c in my Horseman 5x4 with bag bellows & long accordion with no problems (Fidelity film holders). I'd say go for it!

Hi Pete ! there's only one problem with that... you see, the kind of IR light we have here is different that the one you have in Norway... it cuts through walls

Well, being serious, I think that I'll try the Linhof Technika (that is easier to carry) first. It's good to know that if this doesn't work, the Horseman will, though. Thanks for the tip.

Robert Hall · May 21, 2006

I have found that the darkslides for the most part are IR "Proof". It's the plastic that holds the film holder together, around the outside of the holder, that leaks IR light.

I have found wooden holders to be great at keeping the "Wood" efect to a minimum.

donbga · May 21, 2006

George Papantoniou said:
Hey, Don... how stupid of me not to have thought of that !! Thanks for the idea, I always appreciate a fellow photographer who is not afraid to share his/her creative insight with his/her fellows...

Thanks! Always willing to help!

IR film and 4x5 film holders

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