Ilford FP4+ and Rodinal Help Requested

[JeffD]

Hello,

I have done some initial tests with stand development, using Rodinal dilute 1:100 and Ilford fp4+ film at 68 degrees.

I am processing six 4x5 sheets at a time in a combi-plan tank, agitating for about 30 seconds initially, and for 30 seconds about half way through the development.

40 minutes gives me pretty much what I consider "normal" density ranges, and I have been pleased. The stand development was chosen to hopefully give an apparant sharpness boost, and also maybe have some compensating effect on the highlights.

My question is, how should I approach obtaining plus and minus development with the above scenario? Ideally, I would like to be able to perform something akin to a -2, -1, N, +1, and +2 development.

Here are my problems:

I am told that contrast changes are ideally performed using dilution increases or decreases w/ rodinal. Unfortunately, using 1:100 Rodinal, in 1100 mL of water, I am afraid that I won't have enough developer if I decrease dilution much further. Is this true, or do I have leeway to decrease dilution, and still develop six sheets of 4x5 adequately?

To increase contrast, should I simply bump up the concentration of Rodinal, to, say 1:75? Or, rather, increase development time? or, maybe both? I am told that dilute developer and stand techniques aren't very responsive to small differences in development time. So I don't have a clue what time changes might have to be in effect to get the contrasts I'm hoping for.

I am not afraid of testing. I've spent many an hour getting my Tmax400 and Hc110 process down. However, the Rodinal seems a little daunting, and I am hoping maybe for some ideas of the best direction to go, or maybe some ballpark changes that might possibly help me obtain the plus and minus densities I'm after.

Thanks for any comments!

 

[JeffD]

somehow I managed to muck up and post twice- Mods- feel free to remove this thread if possible.

 

[John Bragg]

More agitation should give you the contrast increase you seek in a very controllable and repeatable way.Try agitating as follows, 30secs initial then a further 15secs at the 30mins 20mins and 10mins marks. Breaking it up like this should make a difference.

best wishes, John.

 

[argus]

Jeff,

John is right: agitation gives control over contrast, but so does Nx development. Others might provide a good explanation for this.
I don't change agitation schemes in stand development because the greatest merit of it diminishes: soup the negs and have dinner without worries

Don't be affraid for the dillution, I use 1:150, i.e. 7.5cc in 1 liter, per 4 sheets in a slosher tray.
Making the dillution stronger will make you drift away from stand development and, as I understand, that is not your goal.

To find times for Nx development, make similar exposures and experiment with development times by taking a sheet out of the process at your time - 30%, -15%, +15% and +30%. Those results will guide you towards somewhat correct times for Nx development.

Greetings,
G

 

[JeffD]

Jeff,

John is right: agitation gives control over contrast, but so does Nx development. Others might provide a good explanation for this.
I don't change agitation schemes in stand development because the greatest merit of it diminishes: soup the negs and have dinner without worries

Don't be affraid for the dillution, I use 1:150, i.e. 7.5cc in 1 liter, per 4 sheets in a slosher tray.
Making the dillution stronger will make you drift away from stand development and, as I understand, that is not your goal.

To find times for Nx development, make similar exposures and experiment with development times by taking a sheet out of the process at your time - 30%, -15%, +15% and +30%. Those results will guide you towards somewhat correct times for Nx development.

Greetings,
G

Hey Argus-

Thanks for you message regarding stand development and Nx development time.

I'm curious- have you worked out personal -2, -1 n +1, +2 etc times for your own work using the 1:150 rodinal and minimal agitation? Just curious as to what your Nx times might be, and what film your using.

I guess I can do a test with the changes in development time you suggest- with about 5 sheets of film, I can probably construct something of a curve to see what the highlights are doing plotted against development time.

Lastly, I have noticed on a few sheets, I have some small white blotchy areas in the final print, usually evident in the sky area on landscape pics. My intuition led me to believe their might be some particulate on the film, and minimal agitation in the soup might be exacerbating it's effect on the finished negative. Seems reasonable, but I wonder what others think.

 

[WarEaglemtn]

If you add some sodium ascorbate to the Rodinal you can get results a bit cleaner and sharper yet. Really a nice way to go.

I used Rodinal with FP4+ for some time but when Sandy King came out with his Pyrocat HD and I tried it I have never looked back. Very nice to work with, very clean and controllable. You can dilute to your hearts desire and mix the developer strength by modifying the part A and B to water ratio.

Add to that the staining action and you have a nice combination that works beautifully.

 

[JeffD]

If you add some sodium ascorbate to the Rodinal you can get results a bit cleaner and sharper yet. Really a nice way to go.

I used Rodinal with FP4+ for some time but when Sandy King came out with his Pyrocat HD and I tried it I have never looked back. Very nice to work with, very clean and controllable. You can dilute to your hearts desire and mix the developer strength by modifying the part A and B to water ratio.

Add to that the staining action and you have a nice combination that works beautifully.

I've used Pyro, in the past, but I don't think the HD variant. It seemed kind of a hassle for me to mix and use, and I really like the ability to use my little densitometer to understand what density I am achieving. I am told that the color of the stain makes this impossible though.

Interesting. I might try that sodium ascorbate some time. Right now, it is one more variable that might disrupt what I'm trying to do. I guess I am really concentrated on trying to get predictable plus or minus contrast ranges out of Rodinal stand development at this point.

 

[sergiofigliolia]

I've used Pyro, in the past, but I don't think the HD variant. It seemed kind of a hassle for me to mix and use, and I really like the ability to use my little densitometer to understand what density I am achieving. I am told that the color of the stain makes this impossible though.Interesting. I might try that sodium ascorbate some time. Right now, it is one more variable that might disrupt what I'm trying to do. I guess I am really concentrated on trying to get predictable plus or minus contrast ranges out of Rodinal stand development at this point.

I am also using FP4+ and Rodinal with the zone system.I have done N and N-1 development so far.N-1 development with -15% development time.I'd like to know whether N-2 is achievable with FP4+ and whether -30% is a feasible starting point.

 

[Athiril]

1+100 1 hour stand I found for FP4+ was actually over developed, probably like N+2 development, and also lacked detail and lost sharpness in comparison to regular development with 1+25 and Xtol, I do not recommend it.

1+25, with 1.4g/L potassium thiocyanate added and 10mg/L potassium iodide added, will give you way more sharpness then any regular development, and better grain than any Rodinal method or dilution.

 

[JW PHOTO]

1+100 1 hour stand I found for FP4+ was actually over developed, probably like N+2 development, and also lacked detail and lost sharpness in comparison to regular development with 1+25 and Xtol, I do not recommend it.

1+25, with 1.4g/L potassium thiocyanate added and 10mg/L potassium iodide added, will give you way more sharpness then any regular development, and better grain than any Rodinal method or dilution.

Athiril,
Just curious, but do you change your developing times to the plus side after adding the KI and KSCN?

 

[baachitraka]

I am happy with 2+75 and development time for E.I 100 falls around 7:30mins.