I don't know where to post this message, but please read!

Dave Parker · Jul 4, 2005

I am starting to get quite a bit of inquiries from out international customers, due to delivery times on international orders.

Please let me apprise you, of our situation, currently, I am embroiled in hearing review for our shipments to international destinations, I have been required to file a export permit application, due to our volume of international shipments and have to attend another hearing on July 5th, to determine if we qualify to export the volumes we are currently running, after wading through the quagmire of export laws, I am almost ready to throw in the towel and become a domestic shipper only, as the permit to export the volume we do, requires a very expensive permit to continue exporting our product...

This has also caused delays in our domestic shipments a bit, as many of you know, due to the time I have to spend fullfilling requirements imposed..

Please accept my sincere and BIG sorry for the delays, we are working as hard as we possibly can to get these situations taken care of, if you have a friend that has ordered screens from us, please let them know, they will get their screens as soon as I can possibly get them shipped.

Thanks again, for everyones support, you have made us the number one selling product in our market, and this seems to be one of the growing pains we are going to have to go through.

Dave Parker
Satin Snow Ground Glass

jovo · Jul 4, 2005

Well, I don't know how your dilemma will turn out, but bravo to you for starting this thread to keep your non-domestic customers informed. Almost everyone appreciates being made aware of whatever complications are involved when they would otherwise be just plain frustrated. Good luck, Dave, your enterprise deserves to flourish.

livemoa · Jul 4, 2005

David, I am happy to wait patently at this end of the world for my ground glasses.

On a different note, I find it interesting that it is being made hard for you to earn export income for the US economy, shift here to New Zealand and the government will actually give you money to export stuff!!

Dave Parker · Jul 4, 2005

jovo said:
Well, I don't know how your dilemma will turn out, but bravo to you for starting this thread to keep your non-domestic customers informed. Almost everyone appreciates being made aware of whatever complications are involved when they would otherwise be just plain frustrated. Good luck, Dave, your enterprise deserves to flourish.

Thanks John!

The reason for this thread is partly because of a conversation you and I had a few months ago about the delay in your shipment.

Thanks again.

Dave

roteague · Jul 4, 2005

livemoa said:
On a different note, I find it interesting that it is being made hard for you to earn export income for the US economy, shift here to New Zealand and the government will actually give you money to export stuff!!

No, the US government just wants it's pound of flesh - taxes, taxes and more taxes, then add fees.

Nige · Jul 4, 2005

Maybe I'd better stop running out to the letter box each morning in anticipation!

Dave, can you tell when an expected date of distribution for an order is likely to take place? I've still got my cracked piece of GG and if it's going to be 3-6mths (or whatever) I'll do something in the meanwhile.

Dave Parker · Jul 4, 2005

Nige said:
Maybe I'd better stop running out to the letter box each morning in anticipation!

Dave, can you tell when an expected date of distribution for an order is likely to take place? I've still got my cracked piece of GG and if it's going to be 3-6mths (or whatever) I'll do something in the meanwhile.

Hi Nige,

I have over 100 international orders tied up in customs now, and as I said, will be attending a hearing tommorrow to see what I can do to get them released, do unfortunatley, I have no idea, until I can really find out what I have to do to aliviate this situation, my lawyer is still trying to figure out what exactly they want to clear our shipments for delivery, hopfully I will have more information by this time tommorrow and if I do, I will be sure to post it.

Thanks, and again, I am sorry for the delays..

Dave

Nige · Jul 4, 2005

no probs! updates are good!

KenM · Jul 4, 2005

Dave, do you also intend on stopping shipments to Canada and Mexico? Technically we're international, but with the free trade agreement between the three countries, I would assume that it would be easier to ship to other 'free-trade' (whatever that means) countries.

I had no idea that outbound shipments could get held up in Custom's - never even thought about it.

Hope it works out for you in the end.

BradS · Jul 4, 2005

DAve,

Thank you very much for the update. I put off ordering for so long I can wait a while longer for my order to be fulfilled. Good luck with the Feds and best wishes.

Brad.

Dave Parker · Jul 4, 2005

KenM said:
Dave, do you also intend on stopping shipments to Canada and Mexico? Technically we're international, but with the free trade agreement between the three countries, I would assume that it would be easier to ship to other 'free-trade' (whatever that means) countries.

I had no idea that outbound shipments could get held up in Custom's - never even thought about it.

Hope it works out for you in the end.

Ken,

Actually I have as of yet, not stopped any shipments to anywhere, but for some reason, have shipments held up in customs, my full intent is to continue shipping to anyone anywhere that wants to use our screens, as I said, I should know something by this time tommorrow, hopfully!!!!

If the news is good, I will post, if it is bad, I am going to hide LOL

But no, I don't intend on stopping shippments to anywhere.

Thanks for the question.

Dave

Ole · Jul 5, 2005

I'll stop holding my breath waiting for the GG then...

Time to find that roll of tape, and see if I can make a temporary repair on the old 9x12cm folder.

jjstafford · Jul 5, 2005

David, you could double your prices and still be competitive. Perhaps someone who already has an export license could market your product so you could turn all your attention to manufacturing and still do well.

Dimitri · Jul 5, 2005

David, I hope everything will work out well in the end (although with bureaucrats you have to take your time).

Also no problem here in waiting for the GG's.

(Summertime now and I spend more time swimming and diving than photographing )

noseoil · Jul 5, 2005

Dave, it sounds like you have a tiger by the tail. I would contact my congressman or senator if at all possible. Explain that your are a "small" business and the effect regulations are having on your ability to ship products internationally. Explain that you are considering moving your business to China to avoid governmental regulations and a hostile export environment like we have in this "free" nation. This will take a couple of days, but I think you may find that $hit flows down hill in the federal scheme of things. Ask them if they really want to add to the 162 billion deficit China and others already enjoy. Then, sit back and watch the fun. tim

geraldatwork · Jul 5, 2005

I haven't ordered from you but it is always smart business to let people know what is going on before they call you and further tie up your time.

Carol Flutot · Jul 5, 2005

Good Luck Dave!

Hope to hear Good News!

Ruvy · Jul 11, 2005

After reading your reply to Erics informing us about the sale of his Shen Hao on ebay and reading this thread I see no principal difference. Even if you do it in a more sophisticated way, both of you promote a business interest and if anything Eric's promoting his camera is personal and yours is pure use of the site to promote your business. I personally have a hard time when I see double moral standards to say the least. This is not to say I wouldn't like to buy your and his products and happy to know about them

Dave Parker · Jul 11, 2005

Ruvy said:
After reading your reply to Erics informing us about the sale of his Shen Hao on ebay and reading this thread I see no principal difference. Even if you do it in a more sophisticated way, both of you promote a business interest and if anything Eric's promoting his camera is personal and yours is pure use of the site to promote your business. I personally have a hard time when I see double moral standards to say the least. This is not to say I wouldn't like to buy your and his products and happy to know about them

As a frequent contributor to this website, I do at times use it to keep my customers informed of our progress, this message was no intent to promote my product in any way, as a great many of my customers frequent this website and I have been a past advertiser on this website and have also been told by the owner of the website I can post updates as well as have my website address in my signature, I do find it completely different, and it seems many here do as well, I don't post my website address with my messages, and I don't promote my website here anylonger.

The other post was posted in a manner that would drive income away from Sean and to another website, which I would be guilty of if I did post my website link all the time, which I don't, normally it is not accepted courtisy to post an outside link to another website when your selling something, and that does not just go for this website, it is policy written or unwritten on many different websites.

Mine was purely information post, updating customers of problems that we have encountered in shipping procedures, at no time did I place a link to my website in the post to try and have people look at my products.

Dave

BradS · Jul 11, 2005

Ruvy said:
After reading your reply to Erics informing us about the sale of his Shen Hao on ebay and reading this thread I see no principal difference. Even if you do it in a more sophisticated way, both of you promote a business interest and if anything Eric's promoting his camera is personal and yours is pure use of the site to promote your business. I personally have a hard time when I see double moral standards to say the least. This is not to say I wouldn't like to buy your and his products and happy to know about them

I see a big differeence. The difference starts with the nature of the post. One is saying "hey I posted a bunch of stuff on eBay...check it out". The underlying rudeness is annoying to say the least.

The other, comes from a very well established member. One who has made many valuable contributions to the community and incidentally, recognizes that many, many APUG members and subscribers are devoted customers. This one simply says "I'm having problems with customs and I want all my international customers to know that I'm doing all I can". Big difference.

roteague · Jul 11, 2005

BradS said:
I see a big differeence. The difference starts with the nature of the post. One is saying "hey I posted a bunch of stuff on eBay...check it out". The underlying rudeness is annoying to say the least.

I agree as well. A lot of people on this site have purchase from him (including me) and some are still waiting on orders. In fact, I find that many here always purchase his glass everytime they get a new camera; he has a lot of repeat business. And, as you pointed out, Dave is a valuable member of this community, as well as a friend.

blaze-on · Jul 11, 2005

I see no problem (or rather, I have no problem) with either approach.

If it's something that members/subscribers would be interested in, why does it matter whether it was listed here for a "first crack at it" or a notice to ebay... Eric didn't have to notify APUG, but thought someone here would be interested, and as it were, he was correct. It's also beneficial to know that it is an APUG member listing the item on EBAY and not an "unknown" should one of us come across the listing.

Satinsnow (Dave) benefits from this site just by having a presence. We all benefit in various ways; be it items we buy, sell, loan or info we learn, offer or inquire about. That to me is the essence of "being" here.

It wasn't tacky on Eric's part and should not have been questioned. IMMHO...

Dave Wooten · Jul 11, 2005

Yes, what Brad said.
Yes, what Robert said.

Dave,
Hang in there, and sorry we didnt connect on my recent trip to Montana,
beautiful state and town - by the way-

I would think that you could get some fairly quick relief do to the fact of the small pop size of your state and the accessibility of your congressmen and senators etc...

If it is addressed as hindering exports from the state of Montana I think you will get the ear of your senator quickly......Call the Kalllispel local newspaper and give them your story and the story of your company selling this specialized product etc and the problems you are having etc......

Are harmony tarrif codes involved here? Is part of the problem the country you are exporting to?

Dave Parker · Jul 11, 2005

There is something that is being taken wrong here, Eric is no less of a part of this community that anyone else, he is a paid subscriber, and I don't think he had any malicious intent in his message, I just expressed my opinion on the posting, does not mean it is any more or any less of a valid post than any other that is posted on this system.

My opinion was stated very clearly, I just felt that it was wrong and tacky to post a message about something for sale, that directed someone to another website that would derive income off of the sale of items.

Just by viture of me using my Logo as my avatar on my postings could be construed as me trying to derive business for my glass sales.

In my way of thinking, me posting a message about problems we have or are currently having, would be more negative, than positive to my business, yes I am in the business of supplying ground glass and a substancial portion of my income derives from that business, but can't figure out, how posting a message saying we are having problems would be taken as me promoting my business?

Just my opinon and take it as such...

Dave

photobackpacker · Jul 11, 2005

Dave -

To get back on point, I have had some experience with Customs on an import issue that ultimately required securing skilled attorneys. If you are interested, I would be happy to give you the name and number of one of the best groups in the country. They are not cheap but they are successful in cutting all the red tape and get things on track.

I found that this is an area of law that is not widely understood and that a poor understanding can do more harm than good.

Good Luck.

I don't know where to post this message, but please read!

Dave Parker

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