HP5 in D-76?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by stradibarrius, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    I processed my first roll of film on Monday night. I thought I had done a great job, but when a pro looked at the negatives she said they were over processed.
    It was processed in D-76 at the 12 min. recommendation per Kodak. I agitated as per Kodak, the first 30 seconds and 5 sec. every 30 sec.

    I am about to process my second roll. It is HP5 shot @ ISO 400.
    I will be processing it in D-76 again, in a 2 roll tank.

    My question is how long should this stay in the D-76? What about agitation?
     
  2. csb999

    csb999 Member

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    dilution

    I assume you were using a 1:1 dilution?
     
  3. jordanstarr

    jordanstarr Member

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    The negs might not be over processed, maybe just overexposed and developed to the proper time. When you print black and white negatives you can be a stop off either way and you should be able to get a decent print out of it. If you're really concerned about getting it right on and you think that you messed up somewhere (made the dilution a little strong, etc.), just knock off a couple minutes then. If you pull it out 2 minutes early and this person says they're "under developed" then you know that you overexposed your first roll before developing.
     
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    stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Yes it is a 1:1 dilution.
     
  5. csb999

    csb999 Member

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    Jordanstarr has a good point. Is there any possibility that the negatives were overexposed?

    Also - 12/13 minutes is for 20 C. Any chance the developer temp was warmer? Thermometer incorrect (and/or no temp regulation)?
     
  6. Martin Aislabie

    Martin Aislabie Subscriber

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    Most people are OK with measuring their processing times

    Their development temperature is not always as well controlled - an increase of 1 or 2C makes a lot of difference (1 to 2 mins at 20C) - which is a lot in 12 minutes

    However, don't take you friends word for them being over-processed/over developed - try printing them and adjust from what you find.

    Everybody’s personal speed/development time is different (depends on just about every bit of kit that you use plus the way that you use it) - you just need to find yours.

    The most important thing in B&W is consistency - always do it exactly the same unless you consciously choose to change/adjust

    Celebrate the fact you have processed your first film.

    Try making some prints off them.

    In years to come you might look back on your first work and see some of the faults – but it doesn’t matter – they are your first Negs – and nothing photographically will ever approach the same feeling of satisfaction as getting your first print from them.

    Until you can develop and print to a reasonable consistency don’t be tempted to change anything – stick with the Film/Camera/Meter/Developer/Developing Tank/Dev Time/Dev Temperature

    It’s very hard to mess up so badly that you cannot rescue something from the Negatives

    When you are ready to change/adjust your method – do so only slowly, in small steps, changing one thing at a time and keep good notes of what you did and why.

    Good luck

    Martin
     
  7. Fred Aspen

    Fred Aspen Member

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    If you had mixed the D-76 just prior to development, the developer can be 'hot' until you let it rest. I don't usually use mine for one day to allow resting and temp stabilization.

    -Fred
     
  8. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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    stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    I am fairly certain that the shots were exposed correctly. I also had my digital, D-80, with me doing test shots for exposure and comparing meters between the cameras. The meters using the same lens, same ISO, etc agreed with in 1/3 of a stop. The digital exposures were dead on. I have tested the cameras side by side before and results were the same.
    So I am assuming that from the responses, everyone uses 12 min. dev. time with D-76 at 1:1?

    I had just mix up the D-76 solution...and My thermometer could be off. I had the thermometer in the actualbeaker of solution and had left it in there for several hours for it to settle.

    Should I not be able to read newsprint through the negative?

    I do plan to print these simply because they are my first. The person who told me this teaches "Darlroom" at a local art center and is very experienced. She suggested that I print these on 0 or #1 grade paper or use that filter if I was using VC paper.
     
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    stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    I am fairly certain that the shots were exposed correctly. I also had my digital, D-80, with me doing test shots for exposure and comparing meters between the cameras. The meters using the same lens, same ISO, etc agreed with in 1/3 of a stop. The digital exposures were dead on. I have tested the cameras side by side before and results were the same.
    So I am assuming that from the responses, everyone uses 12 min. dev. time with D-76 at 1:1?

    I had just mix up the D-76 solution...and My thermometer could be off. I had the thermometer in the actualbeaker of solution and had left it in there for several hours for it to settle.

    Should I not be able to read newsprint through the negative?

    I do plan to print these simply because they are my first. The person who told me this teaches "Darlroom" at a local art center and is very experienced. She suggested that I print these on 0 or #1 grade paper or use that filter if I was using VC paper.
     
  11. Paul Howell

    Paul Howell Member

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  12. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    i looked at these negatives, and they are printable, altho, over developed in my opinon.
    i also recommended that he decrease the time by about 25% as a starting points as that would be about a 1 stop differences.

    i also showed him an old school method of reviewing a negative by holding it over a printed page , at which at that point should be readable . Which only in the values of Zone I or II was possible.

    We also discussed, altho briefly the advantages to doing some simple test to determine theproper EI and development times to avoid these types of problems.
     
  13. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    This is not a concern when diluting the stock solution to a 1+1 working solution. It is only a concern when mixing stock D-76 from powder. From what I've read, D-76 when first mixed as a stock solution is more active than it is after 24 hours. After the first day or so, the activity drops a bit and remains stable for at least a couple of months, probably longer. I've never checked this personally, so I don't know if the story is myth or truth. I mix up a gallon at a time, and do so when I'm down to my last quart or so of the previous batch, so I never need to use absolutely fresh D-76.
     
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  15. Fred Aspen

    Fred Aspen Member

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    Frank, you are right. The developer is highly active just after mixing and will remain so for about a day. Then it stabilizes and, according to Sexton, will start to rise in activity after about a month. I read a 'tips' collection written by Sexton that advised dumping any unused D-76 after a month or so as the pH has begun to rise which will increase the HQ activity, causing overdevelopment. I got tired of the inconsistency/dumping and have since gone to TmaxRS replenished.

    -Fred
     
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    stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Ann, with this roll of HP5 would you recommend that I do as we discussed and reduce the time by about 25%.
    The reason I am asking this question is because this is HP% and not the Tmax 100 that you saw yesterda.
     
  17. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    while out shopping i remembed that we looked at tmax and was just signing in to address that issue.

    i would not recommend doing anything but following the manufactor directions. I believe it is risky to start boucing around making adjstment on one type of film based on another's results; especially when just starting out.

    be consistent with your process. time, temp. agaitation, etc.

    then when something needs to be corrected make one correction at a time, so you can have a better sense of what is going to give you the results that are printing well with your equipment.
     
  18. MikeSeb

    MikeSeb Member

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    As others here have suggested, successful processing is about controlling variables, and altering only the ones you want to alter. Simplest is usually best. You have to think of everything that happens from the moment of exposure to the final print as interlocking steps in a "system"; changing one thing often changes others.

    If your negatives have adequate detail in shadow areas that you did not intend to render as featureless pitch black, then you have adequate exposure (ie, proper EI for the film/developer combo you're using.) If areas that should be really black in the final image are more gray, then you've likely overexposed the film and should shoot at a higher EI. "EI" of course is your personal "adjusted" speed rating for the film/dev combo in question; this value encompasses a lot of stuff, such as the type of metering and your methodology in using it; the accuracy of your shutter; and the ability of a given developer to give full "box" speed with a given film.

    If your negatives have very dense highlight areas (dark in the negative, some shade of white in the final print) then you've probably overdeveloped. Do you have detail in highlights where you intended to have it? If not, you've "blown" them and should reduce development time, while keeping temp and agitation as they were. It is possible to be both underexposed and overdeveloped, which is probably the worst error to make, unless you're pushing your film, in which case it's intentional!
     
  19. MikeSeb

    MikeSeb Member

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    As others here have suggested, successful processing is about controlling variables, and altering only the ones you want to alter. Simplest is usually best. You have to think of everything that happens from the moment of exposure to the final print as interlocking steps in a "system"; changing one thing often changes others.

    Look at the shadow areas of the negative to evaluate your exposure. (These are thin or transparent in the negative of course.) If your negatives have adequate detail in shadow areas that you did not intend to render as featureless pitch black, then you have adequate exposure (ie, proper EI for the film/developer combo you're using.) If areas that should be really black in the final image are more gray, then you've likely overexposed the film and should shoot at a higher EI. "EI" of course is your personal "adjusted" speed rating for the film/dev combo in question; this value encompasses a lot of stuff, such as the type of metering and your methodology in using it; the accuracy of your shutter; and the ability of a given developer to give full "box" speed with a given film.

    To evaluate development, look at your highlights, those dark dense parts of the negative that correspond to lighter tones in the final print. If your negatives have very dense highlight areas (dark in the negative, some shade of white in the final print) then you've probably overdeveloped. Do you have detail in highlights where you intended to have it? If not, you've "blown" them and should reduce development time, while keeping temp and agitation as they were. It is possible to be both underexposed and overdeveloped, which is probably the worst error to make, unless you're pushing your film, in which case it's intentional!

    If you've overdeveloped, try a 15% reduction in development time and see what that gets you, while keeping temp and agitation unchanged. Temp control is probably the place most people go wrong--as someone said, 1 or 2 degrees can make a difference.
     
  20. Rolleijoe

    Rolleijoe Member

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    Strad, when I was shooting HP5+, I found that D-76 straight (no dilution at all....1:1 is a no-no), gave me the best results. My processing time was 6.5-7min depending on the light I was shooting in. It does sound as though you could use some "Farmer's Reducer" to rescue those negs. However, if this is something you can reshoot, that's much easier.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rolleijoe/203198205/in/set-72157594219124178/

    That will take you to an example of one of my HP5+ negs developed in this fashion. Good luck.
     
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    stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Beautiful girl! Very nice tone and contrast!
    Why is HP5 and D-76 1:1 a no-no?
     
  22. Chazzy

    Chazzy Member

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    Stradibarrius, many people use D-76 diluted 1+1 quite successfully. I assume that you are using the diluted developer once and pouring it down the drain.
     
  23. johnnywalker

    johnnywalker Subscriber

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    I use this (1+1 and HP5+) combination all the time at the time and temperature recommended by Ilford and have never had a problem with development if the pictures are exposed reasonably well in the first place. As Chazzy says, throw it out after one use.

    Edit: I actually use ID-11, but I understand there is no material difference between that and D-76.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2009
  24. OP
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    stradibarrius

    stradibarrius Member

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    Yes One time use and then down the drain.
     
  25. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    The test will be printing at grade 0 or 1. If the prints look better at these grades than between grades 2-3 then you may well have overdeveloped. Any negs containing a textured white or light coloured wall or similar dress, shirt etc will be a good test. There should be some texture in the print in these areas.

    I have always followed the manufacturer's recommendations for dev time( Ilford ID11 and Ilford films but D-76 times should produce very similar results) and have found prints to be best at about grades 2.5 to 3 which suggests that if your exposure times were correct and your dev temp and times were right then these grades should be about right. Something has gone slightly wrong if grades 0 and 1 are best.

    All you can do is try again and eliminate each potential cause one at a time. Don't worry. While you are doing all this you will still get acceptable prints and learn a lot while "nailing things down"


    pentaxuser
     
  26. Rolleijoe

    Rolleijoe Member

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    It's just a personal thing.....a no-no for me, as I wasn't happy with the results. So I've never recommended that to anyone.

    Thanks for the nice compliment. You should be able to easily get close to this same result using the same method. D-76 straight, 6.5 minutes with standard agitation.

    Good luck.