How much rodinal is too little?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by drazak, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. drazak

    drazak Member

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    So, I've started using rodinal as one of my main film developers, after getting very comfortable with d76 and it's various dilutions, and I know from experience that you need atleast 150-200mL of d76 stock no matter how you're diluting it, to get good consistent negs every time. I've used less by accident and gotten some ok negs, but regardless, where is that point with rodinal? I use my giant 1000ml tank with 2 reels for 1+100.

    Ben
     
  2. thebanana

    thebanana Member

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    Hi Ben,

    I'm sure there will be some posts from people much more knowledgeable than me about Rodinal, but 1:50 or 1:100 with appropriate times should work just fine. I tend to start with the recommendations from the Massive Development Chart.

    http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html

    JS
     
  3. Colin Corneau

    Colin Corneau Subscriber
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    You don't want to go beyond 1:200, IIRC. That's 2.5 ml for a 500ml development tank.

    A lot of people think 1:100 is the edge. Why do you wonder?
     
  4. MrMushroomMan

    MrMushroomMan Member

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    I'm sure you could probably dilute further than 1:300....but then who wants to wait a day and possibly come out with nothing?
     
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    drazak

    drazak Member

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    oh, I must not have asked the right question, what I was trying to say was, how much concentrate is needed to develop 80 film inches (1 36 exp roll, 4 4x5's, 1 120 roll, 1 8x10, etc).
     
  6. thebanana

    thebanana Member

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    Maybe I don't understand the question. Whatever dilution you choose, fill the tank to the point that the film is totally immersed. The total length of the film is inconsequential.
     
  7. David Grenet

    David Grenet Member

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    Agfa say (said?) no less than 10ml
    Apparently before that they said 5ml
    Many others say 2.5-3ml is ok

    I say do some tests yourself :smile:
     
  8. Alexander Ghaffari

    Alexander Ghaffari Member

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    1+300 in 1L tank for Rollei ATP, what a great combo.
     
  9. Larry.Manuel

    Larry.Manuel Member

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    I agree with David Grenet. I've had good results with 3 ml.
     
  10. aluk

    aluk Member
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    I believe that the last film I developed had 6 ml of Rodinal.
     
  11. dances_w_clouds

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    Lately I have been doing my dulutions @ 4% Rodinal and have been very nice contrasty negs. I was doing it like you with D76 for a fair amount of rls. When I switched and could tolerate the stand developing I was inpressed with the outcome.That was with Delta 400 @ 800 for 2 hrs
     
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  12. largely

    largely Member

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    Just last week I tried 1:200 semi stand with Tri x 400 at box speed. 1 roll of 120 in a 500 mililiter tank. Thats 2.5 mililiters of Rodinal.
    The negs came out much thinner than I like and were almost too thin to print. I'm going to try it at 1:100. Maybe I'll get a better result
    Larry
     
  13. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    That's 40ml per liter working strength. Dan
     
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  15. Anon Ymous

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    The minimum amount of rodinal should depend on the negatives themselves. Let's say that you shoot a 135 roll with a white card as a subject, with the correct exposure to give you a proper density. Let's also say that - accordingly - you shoot another roll with a black card as a subject, again using the correct exposure. The second roll should need very little concentrate, while the first one should need much more than the average. So, that leads us to the assumption that there's a safety margin that you shouldn't exceed. 5-6ml should be ok for almost all cases, if not all cases. Seriously speaking, economy isn't a reason to go below 5-6ml. Rodinal is cheap enough and you can only expect trouble by going too low. As others have said, too much dilution can get you into troubles too. If your tank doesn't have the proper volume to process as many rolls as you want with high dilutions, don't reduce the amount of concentrate/roll. Make more batches of fewer rolls.

    So 5-6ml of concentrate and 1+100 dilution should be ok.
     
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  16. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member
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    Just did a roll of Pan-F last night, 1+100, 3ml of Rodinal into 300ml H20, 21 min. Negs look just fine.
     
  17. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    What was the time/ temperature of development?

    "Semi-stand"? What agitation pattern?
     
  18. dances_w_clouds

    dances_w_clouds Subscriber
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    Yes thats true sorry for the misprint. I use 4ml Rodinal in 400 ml water. Didn't have my %'s worked out properly. It is actually 1%
     
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  19. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    In my experience, whatever the manufacturer sez is the minimum amount of stock or concentrate per 80 sq-in, half it, and you will be fine, and will probably even be fine if you quarter it, as long as you are hoping for a compensating effect. I find this to be the case with any developer that I have used extensively (D-76/ID-11, HC-110/Ilfotec HC, D-19).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2009
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    drazak

    drazak Member

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    I acutally started this thread right before I did a bunch of negatives in rodinal stand development, ~1+100, for 90 minutes, 1 minute continuous agitation, all of the negatives look good, a few of them are a little thick, but none of them are thin, I'd rather have a thick negative than a thin one, I used 10mL of concentrate and 1000mL of water. As far as I know, there's no published minimum amount currently, if there is, then I'd be interested in finding it, heh.

    Ben
     
  21. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    as I understand the process, "stand" development depends to a great deal on significantly reduced agitation and a *very* dilute develpor.

    My recipe was, for APX100, APX400, Fuji Neopan 400 - Rodinal, 1:200 or 1:300; for 2h, 30min - 3:00 hours. Agitation: one inversion after 20 minutes, two to three more during the remainder of processing.

    It seems to me that "Semi-stand", with increased developer strength, reduced time, and far more vigorous agitation defeats the purpose, bringing it into a more of less "normal" area.

    If you disllke "semi - " results, place a length of flavored inner tube between your teeth and try the above recipe. I have been pleased witth the reuslts, and there have been no explosions -- yet.
     
  22. BobNewYork

    BobNewYork Member

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    I standardized on 1+99. My minimum per film use is 3mm - that's for 15mm in 1.5 lt of developer in a Paterson 5 reel. I don't see "weaker" negs here than when I do six 4x5 sheets in 1,500 ml - which is he equivalent of 10 ml per film. Seems that 3ml per is fine. I don't know about any less.

    Bob H
     
  23. P C Headland

    P C Headland Subscriber

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    I've had no problems with 3ml for developing a 36 exposure roll of 35mm in a single reel tank. For 120, with my usual 1+100 dilution, that works out to 4.5ml or 6ml depending on which tank I use.

    I've also done two 4x5" sheets with 2ml of Rodinal in my Paterson Orbital.
     
  24. RobertV

    RobertV Member

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    The minimum amount of concentrate according Agfa is 10 ml for each 135-36 or 120 roll film (same area).
    The real minimum according Mr. Holz von Agfa (contacted some years ago) is 5-6 ml for each mentioned above film configuration. Under 5 ml it will depend on the amount of Black and White area from the negative so in fact you are playing Russian roulette with your film development.
    5 ml in 1+50 dilution is no problem in a Jobo 1510 tank (250ml), one film or Jobo 1520 tank (485ml) filled with two films (10 ml Rodinal) and inverse development. 5,5 ml resp. 11 ml is still fitting in these tanks for a 1+50 dilution.
    For 1+100 you can use the Jobo 1540 (1510+1530) tank, 975ml volume.

    One of the best combination for Rodinal (renamed R09 "one shot developer", "made in Germany" or Fomadon R09 NEW), is with the APX 100/Rollei Retro 100 film. E.I. 80. (10:00 min. 1+50)
    Also the Acros 100 on E.I. 64 is doing well (12:00 min. 1+50).

    Classical cubical grained slow and medium speed films are in general the best in this Para-Amino Phenol developer. Efke 25, Rollei Pan 25 etc.
    Rodinal can be very old and will not fail in development.

    Best regards,

    Robert


    [​IMG]

    Retro 100 - Rodinal 1+25

    [​IMG]

    Retro 100 - 4 years old Rodinal 1+25
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2009
  25. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Thanks for all the great info, Robert.
     
  26. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    I find that to be the case with D-23 at 1:7. Dan
     
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