how critical is temp when processing E6

[percepts]

I'm contemplating having a go at developing some chromes myself. I don't have a processor so I would have to set up some kind of water bath to keep temps as constant as possible. I'd like to know how critical is temp when doing this. For example, if the temperature of my water bath dropped by 1 degree during processing, would that make a big difference to the results?

 

[Monophoto]

As I recall, most E6 instructions call for 1/4 deg variation.

Variations in the temperature of the first developer mainly affect the effective film speed, and it is possible to compensate for a drop in temperature by extending the development time.

I used to do e-6 many years ago with a small tank and a waterbath. I had a temperature drop of about 1 degree during the first development stage, and I never noticed the difference.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Ian Grant]

Only the first developer is critical with regards to time and temperature and it's very easy to hold the temperature constant with a simple water bath.

You certainly don't need a processor just a normal developing tank.

Ian

 

[PHOTOTONE]

As the previous poster said, the critical step is the first one. The first developer, which needs to be closely controlled. Good news, though is this step is only between 6 and 7 minutes in length. The other chemicals can vary by a degree or two, as they all go to completion. Maintaining correct temperature is not hard, and you can do it (for small quantity processing) with a dishwashing tub sitting in the bathtub, with water trickling in, and allowing to overflow into the tub drain. You Put your chemical bottles into the dishtub along with a thermometer and you also sit your processing tank in the dishtub to maintain temperature during processing. It is really very easy, and harder to put into words than into practice.

 

[percepts]

Thanks guys. All reports suggest that its easily doable with a little care. Now all I need to do is work out how to make it economical for 4x5 given that the E6 kits I have located so far seem to be pretty expensive.

One reference I found said that that 3 bath kits don't do as good a job as a full six bath does.

Any experience of one against the other or if the reference I found is correct?

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Yes, in general the 3-bath kits are a compromise that can affect the overall look of the images, as well as the long-term stability of the film.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

As a further note...the Kodak (brand) E-6 chemistry is all liquid concentrates. It is quite feasable to make up working solutions from them in smaller quantity, and the concentrates in tightly stoppered bottles keep for quite a while. Kodak used to make a 1 gallon kit, which I used to use by mixing it up and dividing it between 2 sets of 1/2 gallon. The 1/2 gallon bottles were easier to use and control the temperature of. There are lots of ways to mix up small quantity.

 

[nc5p]

Do yourself a favor and use the real Kodak chemicals. I did tons of E6 years ago. The ones done in Kodak are still quite good (25+ years). The ones done in the (quickie) kits are very bad looking today. As others said, the first dev. is the critical one. If you have a two sided sink or a small tub, just run hot water and blend with cold to get the water temp right. It worked well for me, though I'm sure it did waste a lot of water. A circulation pump and heater with proportional controller would probably do better. If you're going to do a lot that would be the way to go. (My dad got very upset about the water bill, I was buying Ektachrome in 100ft. rolls)

 

[Lopaka]

For best results, temp is critical through the color developer. The bleach and fix steps can be off a little. I have seen color shifts to the point of being beyond correctability from the first wash after the first developer being off temp. Note also, that if you run Fuji film in the EK process, the first developer time is extended about 30 seconds.

Bob

 

[David Louis]

I've done a lot of E6 at home and concur with advice given above....go with the Kodak six step process....the first developer temperature is the most critcal....and extend development by 30 seconds if using Fuji films. The only thing I would add is that if you use Fuji film, be prepared for long wash times. Keep washing until the water is completly clear, with no magenta tint. I don't know why the Fuji films seem to take longer to clear, but that has been my experience.

 

[srs5694]

FWIW, I use a water bath in a plastic dishpan, but I don't run the water continuously, as some here have suggested doing; I start out at a few degrees above my target temperature and wait for the developer temperature to reach the target (100F for E-6 or C-41). The temperature in the bath usually drops enough during this stage that I've got to drain some of it and add more hot (well above 100F) water to bring the temperature up again. When the temperature in the first developer gets within a couple degrees of 100F, I pour some 100F water into the developing tank as a pre-wash and to raise the temperature of the tank and film, and leave the tank in the water bath. Once the temperature in the first developer reaches 100F and the temperature in the surrounding bath is a little bit higher, I begin processing. The water bath temperature doesn't change much over the few minutes required for the first developer to work. I always return the tank to the water bath when I'm not agitating it or pouring chemicals in or out, except for the final rinse step. As I use a stainless steel tank, it's not convenient for me to measure the temperature of the solutions in the tank. By the time I'm done with everything (through the final rinse), the water bath temperature has dropped significantly, but I'm not too concerned by this, since as others have said, it's the first developer temperature that's most critical.

I've never run any sort of formal tests on the results from this procedure, but I've been satisfied with the results I get. Of course, others might have higher standards than I've got, or might get different results because of different water volumes or whatever.

 

[Ian Grant]

As a once heavy user of the Photocolor (now Paterson) 3 bath E6 kits I have to say that the quality and long term stability of my E6 transparencies is no different from commercially processed images.

I would add though that Pip Pippard who formulated much of the Johnson's (Photocolor) chemistry was highly regarded as a photochemist, and his colour chemistry has always been one of the leading independant brands.

Ian

Yes, in general the 3-bath kits are a compromise that can affect the overall look of the images, as well as the long-term stability of the film.

 

[dslater]

Hi There,
Just thought I'd give you my 2 cents on 4x5 E-6 processing. I have been doing it myself for a year now. I do use a processor. I use a Jobo CPE Plus processor with a lift - this is the smaller one that isn't too expensive - I got mine used for around $300 with the lift. For 4x5 sheet film. I use the 2509N reel with a 2820 test drum. This is actually a print drum, but it works fine with the reel. An added bonus is that if I only want to process 1 or 2 sheets, I can use the 2820 drum without the reel to save on chemistry.
While I agree you don't need a processor for E-6 processing, it sure makes it a lot easier. Temp control is easy, consistency is easy, and you will probably save on chemistry since the rotary processors use very little chemistry.
I'd start with the Kodak E-6 single use kit that makes 5 liters. I use this kit and mix 350ml of working solution at a time to process 6 4x5 sheets. At $50 for the kit from Adorama, that works out to about $0.60 a sheet. For mixing, I got a set of measuring syringes from Photographers formulary. The box has fractional mixing instructions right on it.
I'd stay away from 3-step E-6 processing kits. Those kits mix the bleach and fixer into a single solution which can cause problems with bleaching. Fuji explicitly recommends against using a 3-step kit with their films.

Thanks guys. All reports suggest that its easily doable with a little care. Now all I need to do is work out how to make it economical for 4x5 given that the E6 kits I have located so far seem to be pretty expensive.

One reference I found said that that 3 bath kits don't do as good a job as a full six bath does.

Any experience of one against the other or if the reference I found is correct?

 

[Parsifal]

The bigger the water bath, the more stable it is... I used to invert a coke can in the drain to get the right height water bath in the sink. If you have a constant temp valve it's very helpful as well. Valves available on ebay reasonably......

 

[David Brown]

I haven't done any E-6 in a long time, but "when I did":

I used a styrofoam container where several posters have talked about dishtubs and the like. I took a styrofoam picnic cooler (about 4 bucks at the 7-11) and cut it down to 6 inches deep and used that for the water bath. (I also used a purpose made photo-therm heater - but that's another story.)

Anyway, however you get your water to 100 degrees, it will stay there a bit easier in the insulating styrofoam.

Just a suggestion from my humble experience. As always, "YMMV".