Homemade Carbon Tissue

[ciocc]

Hello -

I made some carbon tissue a couple of nights ago. I obtained surprisingly decent results for a first try. The print looks fairly close to a print made from the same negative with B&S tissue, except for all the marks left by bubbles in my solution! However, I need to reduce the exposure scale of the tissue. I know I can do this by increasing the pigment concentration, but I don't know how this affects sensitivity. The literature seems silent in this area. I'm guessing that my exposure time will increase? I don't want to start my test strips in the wrong direction.

Eric Scott.

 

[Donald Qualls]

You should probably join the Carbon printing list. Send an e-mail with "subscribe" in the first line of the body to carbon-request at spitbite dot org.

Sandy King, Dick Sullivan, Witho Worms (assuming I'm remembering all the names right), lots of others who print in carbon. Did you know you can buy premade tissue from Bostick & Sullivan?

 

[colivet]

Hello -

I made some carbon tissue a couple of nights ago. I obtained surprisingly decent results for a first try. The print looks fairly close to a print made from the same negative with B&S tissue, except for all the marks left by bubbles in my solution! However, I need to reduce the exposure scale of the tissue. I know I can do this by increasing the pigment concentration, but I don't know how this affects sensitivity. The literature seems silent in this area. I'm guessing that my exposure time will increase? I don't want to start my test strips in the wrong direction.

Eric Scott.

Eric, if you don't own Sandy King's book on Carbon printing, you must get it. Better yet if you can afford it sign up for the workshop. If I could afford it I'd be there.
Varying the concentration of sensitizer will also affect the exposure scale.

 

[sanking]

Hello -

I made some carbon tissue a couple of nights ago. I obtained surprisingly decent results for a first try. The print looks fairly close to a print made from the same negative with B&S tissue, except for all the marks left by bubbles in my solution! However, I need to reduce the exposure scale of the tissue. I know I can do this by increasing the pigment concentration, but I don't know how this affects sensitivity. The literature seems silent in this area. I'm guessing that my exposure time will increase? I don't want to start my test strips in the wrong direction.

Eric Scott.

Increasing the pigment concentration will most likely increase the sensitivity of the tissue. All things being equal, which they are of course rarely are, very thick tissues that are lightly pigmented are less sensitive than thin ones that are highly pigmented.

To minimize bubbles allow the pigmented gelatin solution to set for a couple of hours after mixing. Most of the bubbles will disperse during this time. Also, make sure the pigmented gelatin solution is fairly warm when you first pour it, the warmer the better, and try to spread it evenly as quickly as possible. Once it begings to cool down bubbles began to appear. This is one of the main reasons I highly recommend the use of some type of frame to contain the pigment within the coating area.

Sandy

 

[ciocc]

I did join the carbon mailing list recently, and should have posted my question there. Sorry.

I started with the B&S tissue, but someone convinced me that I should be making my own. There are lot's of advantages, but of course it's taking time to dial in my "manufacturing" technique.

My girlfriend and I seriously talked about my going to the workshop in Montana, but we just can't come up with the cash right now.

I let the solution set for a while tonight, and the bubbles did disperse, but I still have some minor issues that I need to work out. I tried coating the paper tonight with a puddle pusher wrapped with wire. It did a nice job of spreading the solution evenly. I actually got no spillover, but of course the paper isn't completely covered edge to edge.

Ok, enough carbon talk. I'll do my talking over there. It's *very* quiet there however.

Eric.

 

[Peter Rockstroh]

Eric,

I have no experience with carbon printing, but I have been dispersing pigments for 20 years. Controlling bubbles preparing pigment mixtures at home is tricky; too little mixing won´t give you a homogenous coating, too much mixing will introduce air into the mix. Since you have tensoactive ingredients in the formula (wetting and dispersing agents), they build foam and you have bubbles. Look for the closest paint factory or silk screen supplier and ask them for a sample of defoamer for water-based formulation. If you can contact someone in those industries, you might as well ask them for pre-dispersed pigments for water-based paints. They are a big advantage over dry pigments when you prepare mixtures at home.

 

[sanking]

Eric,

I have no experience with carbon printing, but I have been dispersing pigments for 20 years. Controlling bubbles preparing pigment mixtures at home is tricky; too little mixing won´t give you a homogenous coating, too much mixing will introduce air into the mix. Since you have tensoactive ingredients in the formula (wetting and dispersing agents), they build foam and you have bubbles. Look for the closest paint factory or silk screen supplier and ask them for a sample of defoamer for water-based formulation. If you can contact someone in those industries, you might as well ask them for pre-dispersed pigments for water-based paints. They are a big advantage over dry pigments when you prepare mixtures at home.

I began using the Cal-Tint II and Mixol dispersion pigments for water-based materials several years ago and recommend them highly for the home manufacture of carbon tissue. You can buy them through Douglas and Sturgess in San Francisco. Most tube water colors work great as well, but are relatively speaking very expensive.

For a defoamer, a good one is Kremer 78600, available from Kremer pigments in New York.

Sandy

 

[Donald Qualls]

I did join the carbon mailing list recently, and should have posted my question there. Sorry.

Oh, not a problem -- I referred you over there because I thought you'd be more likely to get good answers there, forgetting that Sandy frequents this forum as well.

Carbon is on my list of things to try once I get into somewhat larger formats than the 9x12 cm that's my current biggest (and come up with more darkroom space). With 9x12, however, I do plan on gum bichromate and salted paper. I'd like to do tricolor in either gum or carbon at some point, and I'd prefer to do it with a tricolor camera than via digital negatives...

 

[avandesande]

You can also degass the gelatine with a vacum pump

 

[sanking]

You can also degass the gelatine with a vacum pump

Could you elaborate on an inexpensive set-up that would allow one to do this with 2-4 liters of pigmented gelatin solution?

Sandy

 

[Donald Qualls]

Inexpensive: high power vacuum cleaner or inlet side of a small compressor, non-collapsing hose, and mason jar with ring and lid. Install hose barb connector in lid to fit hose.

Put the whole works inside a plastic 5 gallon bucket with a hole in the lid to pass the hose before starting the pump, just in case the jar implodes (not likely with the vacuum cleaner, but just possible if you use a compressor as a pump).

 

[sanking]

Inexpensive: high power vacuum cleaner or inlet side of a small compressor, non-collapsing hose, and mason jar with ring and lid. Install hose barb connector in lid to fit hose.

Put the whole works inside a plastic 5 gallon bucket with a hole in the lid to pass the hose before starting the pump, just in case the jar implodes (not likely with the vacuum cleaner, but just possible if you use a compressor as a pump).

Thanks. Sounds like this would be pretty simple to put together.

Sandy

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you already have a compressor, it'll be cheap, too. If not, you can buy a brand new Chinese made compressor from Harbor Freight for about $60, maybe less if they have smaller ones than the one I'm looking at for my nail guns. The cheap ones don't last like a good one, but for this kind of use you'll never notice the difference.

 

[magic823]

I think a better idea would be to take on the 5 gal. plastic bucket with a sealable lid (my wife gets her laundry detergent at Costco in these) and hook the fittings up to it. No chance of shattering the glass jar and you could put containers of any size in it.

Sandy, should I try to build one before the workshop?

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you do it this way, beware of the lid caving in; if you have the interior down to 1 psi and the lid collapses, it'll ruin you day just as surely as an imploding glass jar. And be sure to install a relief valve so you can release the vacuum -- otherwise you will never get the lid off without just drilling a hole in the bucket.

 

[k_jupiter]

You should probably join the Carbon printing list. Send an e-mail with "subscribe" in the first line of the body to carbon-request at spitbite dot org.

thankee kindlee Donald...


tim in san jose

 

[Murray@uptowngallery]

What good is this found object?

I replaced an 'ribbon' in a 'plain paper' fax machine and had to torment and ponder the material for a while...my first worry was all the 'confidential' info on it that looked like an old IBM Selectric typewriter film ribbon...each letter gets cut out, leaving a readable negative image.

The material ingredient list has carbon, wax and some other stuff. I crinkled it & used a heat gun before I gave up, but I wondered if it had any imaging potential...doesn't seem to be light sensitive (as a known characteristic, anyway), however.

Murray

 

[magic823]

I began using the Cal-Tint II and Mixol dispersion pigments for water-based materials several years ago and recommend them highly for the home manufacture of carbon tissue. You can buy them through Douglas and Sturgess in San Francisco. Most tube water colors work great as well, but are relatively speaking very expensive.

For a defoamer, a good one is Kremer 78600, available from Kremer pigments in New York.

Sandy

Sandy, was the pigments we were using last week at the Formulary workshop the Cal-Tint or the Mixol. I'm looking place an order and for consistancy I want to say with the same brand.

Thanks,
Steve

P.S. I won the Nuart that you pointed out to me on the auction site that shall remain nameless. I'm also thinking of picking up a light integrator and setup one of the Formulary's light boxes with it. I just can't seem to find where to buy the photocells for the Olec units.

 

[sanking]

Sandy, was the pigments we were using last week at the Formulary workshop the Cal-Tint or the Mixol. I'm looking place an order and for consistancy I want to say with the same brand.

Thanks,
Steve

P.S. I won the Nuart that you pointed out to me on the auction site that shall remain nameless. I'm also thinking of picking up a light integrator and setup one of the Formulary's light boxes with it. I just can't seem to find where to buy the photocells for the Olec units.

Steve,

Sorry for the dealy in responding but have been without internet connection since I left Montana. The pigments we used at the Formulary workshop were Cal-Tint II pigments. You are correct to be concerned about the consistency issue since small changes in pigment loading or type can make a huge difference in results when you go for maximum relief.

Congratulations on winning the NuArc printer. You got a very good deal. Unforunately many of the light integrators sold on auction sites come without a photocell, or probe. You can,however, still purchase photcells of the wave length needed from Olex.

Sandy

 

[Dave Wooten]

Am kicking my self for not being able to work out my schedule to take Sandy's class...I will catch it next time around where ever....

I have one of Bud's light boxes....I like it a lot and do recommend it.


Dave in Vegas