Home made D76 with raw chemistry?

Fellipe de Paula · Sep 25, 2009

Does anyone here makes a home made D76 mixing raw chemistry?
How's the life span of the chemistry powders? I'm asking this because I found a lab that only sells high qty of the chemicals: 500g or 1kg. I'm planning to buy those and mixing at home the needed qty to make 1L.

BradS · Sep 25, 2009

I've been mixing my own film developers for a few years now. I was given a vast stockpile of old Kodak chemicals - Hydroquinone, Borax, Sodium Sulfite, etc...many of the jars have price tags from the early to mid 1970's....certainly, all of the chemicals necessary to make D-76 seem to have suffered no ill effect with age.

So, I'd say that the four constituents of D-76 seem to last decades if properly stored.

John Shriver · Sep 25, 2009

Be sure those kilos are of photo-grade quality. Many potentially nasty impurities if they aren't.

KenR · Sep 25, 2009

Photographers Formulary

Did you check out Photographers Formulary. They sell small quanitities, large quantities and everything in between. When I was mixing my own D-76 variations, I bought my chemicals from them (with the exception of supermarket 20 Mule Team Borax).

Bruce Osgood · Sep 25, 2009

There are many recipes for D-76. The one I use does not require Hydroquinone. It has a very long shelf life in terms of months.

Distilled water 750 mL @ 52-c
Metol 2.50 g
Sodium Sulfite 100.00 g
Borax 2.00 g
Distilled water to 1000 mL

For use dilute 1 + 1.

Ronald Moravec · Sep 26, 2009

20 Mule team works fine. $2 for a life time supply in the laundry aisle.

sodium sulfite from "The Chemistry Store.com" Get 50# pail.

hydroquinone came from my friend who ran a wedding photo business. Also have a small supply from 1968.

Got a pound of metol from Photographers Formulary and put it small 2 oz bottles and tape the lids shut with MMM waterproof tape on all the bottles but one. You need 8 bottles. This one deteriorates fast if exposed to air. Fresh is pure white.

Remove the metol with a plastic spoon I ground to 1/2" wide on my bench grinder. Use a razor knife and file otherwise. Be careful as ther is no good way to use the knife this way. Safety gloves.

Have a 15 dollar scale from 1968 recently replaced with a drug store balance from 1935 my father in law used in med school or college, or his medical practice. 1930`s.

Vivitar Mixie Cups to hold the chems. Weigh `em out and put in cups in order.

Mix with a Paterson Stirrer in a ROUND container. I use stainless. Rectangular does not stir well.

Because I heat the water with a Betty Crocker electric one burner stove in my darkroom. $15.

Add a pinch of SS first, them add in order listed disolving each in the order listed. Allow to cool in a liter container with a loose cap or spread Saran Wrap, the expensive stuff, not the cheap, over the developer in the mix container. Float it right on the liquid and press to the sides.

After cooling, decant a liter to eight 125 ml bottles. These need to be good bottles with tight lids.

Use for 6 months as one shot developer. Some place between 6 and 7, it starts to get weak.

NO HALF FULL BOTTLES SHOULD BE USED EVER EVER EVER.

If you expect perfection.

Just mix regular D76 and don`t screw around with varients that work no better. I have carefully tested half full bottles a week old and sealed bottles weekly and monthy up to 7 months. It will keep perfectly 6 months IF the lids are good. Half full does not keep, repeat does not keep. 4 hours is my limit on half full.

I have never screwed up a roll with my home made mix. Never ever. Results are no different from packaged D76 except for cost and I can mix 8 oz if I want so it is always fresh.

A magnetic stirrer is of limited value.

The proper way to use a balance is to have it move plus and minus a division or two, the same in each direction. Moving friction is less than static.

Stir in each chem fully before adding the next.

JPD · Sep 26, 2009

I bought my chemicals, that can make D-76 and many other developers, in 2000/2001, and they are still good.

Ian Grant · Sep 26, 2009

Most raw chemicals keep well for very many years. Lab grade chemicals are fine for Photographic use.

Ian

Anscojohn · Sep 26, 2009

Fellipe de Paula said:
Does anyone here makes a home made D76 mixing raw chemistry?
How's the life span of the chemistry powders? I'm asking this because I found a lab that only sells high qty of the chemicals: 500g or 1kg. I'm planning to buy those and mixing at home the needed qty to make 1L.

*******
Simplify. Make up D23 first. Then use it with DK-25R replenisher. You may never move on to D-76.

fotch · Sep 26, 2009

Ronald Moravec said:
..........Got a pound of metol from Photographers Formulary and put it small 2 oz bottles and tape the lids shut with MMM waterproof tape on all the bottles but one. You need 8 bottles. This one deteriorates fast if exposed to air. Fresh is pure white.

A magnetic stirrer is of limited value............

Ron, I found your post very interesting and have two questions.
1. Would using Nitrogen help in keeping or just overkill for raw chemicals?
2. Why is a magnetic stirrer of limited value?

Thanks

BradS · Sep 26, 2009

fotch said:
Ron, I found your post very interesting and have two questions.
1. Would using Nitrogen help in keeping or just overkill for raw chemicals?
2. Why is a magnetic stirrer of limited value?

Thanks

Fotch, for what it is worth, I have strong evidence that Metol need only be stored in tightly capped amber glass jars. Mine is from the early 1970's in the original Kodak glass jar. It is perfectly white and works fine. Same as the new stuff I bought from the Formulary about two years ago...no appreciable difference.

Jim Noel · Sep 27, 2009

Bruce Osgood said:
There are many recipes for D-76. The one I use does not require Hydroquinone. It has a very long shelf life in terms of months.

Distilled water 750 mL @ 52-c
Metol 2.50 g
Sodium Sulfite 100.00 g
Borax 2.00 g
Distilled water to 1000 mL

For use dilute 1 + 1.

If it does not contain hydroquinone, it is DEVELOPER. BUT IT IS NOT D-76!

pnance · Sep 27, 2009

Yeah right, a magnetic stirrer is of limited value, of value only when you use it. Nothing like using a stirring rod to try and get the last bits to go in solution, when you could use a mag stirrer and just watch. A note of warning: if you use a mag stirrer, do not over agitate and pull air into the solution, a small amount of agitation will do just fine.

Paul

Keith Tapscott. · Sep 27, 2009

Jim Noel said:
If it does not contain hydroquinone, it is DEVELOPER. BUT IT IS NOT D-76!

I agree, it is more like a weak D-23 type with borax added to it. That is not to say that it doesn`t work well, but it isn`t a developer of the D-76 type.

Ian Grant · Sep 27, 2009

It's not even a Kodak formula, the closest are D103 and as Keith says D23, or DK76b.

Ian

dancqu · Sep 27, 2009

What is It?

Jim Noel said:
If it does not contain hydroquinone, it is DEVELOPER.
BUT IT IS NOT D-76!

What is it? It is a 1/3 strength VERY sulfited D-23 with a pinch
of borax. The pinch of borax for what it is worth what with
all that sulfite. I very much doubt the borax would be
missed if left out. Dan

Keith Tapscott. · Sep 27, 2009

dancqu said:
What is it? It is a 1/3 strength VERY sulfited D-23 with a pinch
of borax. The pinch of borax for what it is worth what with
all that sulfite. I very much doubt the borax would be
missed if left out. Dan

Which as you say, makes it a very weak D-23. I still think that Metol only developers haven`t been fully explored yet and that there is plenty of scope left for optimising them with modern B&W films.

Anon Ymous · Sep 27, 2009

Isn't that what is said to be a Metol only variant of D76, credited to G. Haist? D76H or something like that?

Ian Grant · Sep 27, 2009

There was already a Kodak D76h which the company published themselves, it's a variantion of D76a with the Metol increased to partially counteract the lower pH caused by the Boric acid.

D76h

Metol 2.50 g
Sodium Sulphite 100.00 g
Hydroquinone 5.00 g
Borax 2.00 g
Boric Acid 15g
Water to 1 litre

If a retired Kodak employee like Ron Mowrey (PE) suggests or publishes a formula he doesn't give it a Kodak type number. It would be better to call Haist's formula H76 for this reason.

Ian

Ronald Moravec · Sep 27, 2009

A nitrogen head will work fine to preserve solutions. I never suggest it because it beyond most peoples means. I have suggested what people can do to achieve perfect results with least effort and cost. Small bottles are much cheaper than maintaining nitrogen tanks. Even if you have the tank, it needs refilling and current regulations require the tank be inspected every 5 years. There is a $50 fee for this. I bought a compressor for my air brush and got rid of the nice quiet tanks.

Magnetic stirer are fine in principle, but as you start to add chemicals a gallon starts getting heavy and the connection between the magnet and the base keeps going wonky. I know a person who used one, but I have had bad luck.

If exposed to air metol will go bad. That is why I break it down into smaller bottles and seal the lids. It will last forever if you keep air away from it. Open one bottle at a time.

gainer · Sep 27, 2009

I wonder wherefrom came the admonition to dissolve the Metol along with a pinch of sulfite before everything else. Metol in solution is acidic and is not likely to oxidize any more than it already has. Sulfite alone will not regenerate the Metol. It keeps the oxidized portion from inhibiting development. Sulfite along with hydroquinone will regenerate Metol. The earliest instructions I have seen, in Hardy & Perrin "Principles of Optics", 1930, say to dissolve the Metol in a small amount of water, then prepare a solution of hydroquinone and some of the sulfite and add it to the firste solution. Then make a third solution containing the rest of the sulfite and the borax and add it. Needless to say, these three solutions together are somewhat less than the desired total, which is made up with cold water at the last.

Ian Grant · Sep 27, 2009

That advice was first given well before any APUG member was born

It does work although I'm not sure if it's that important, I tend to use Phenidone in formulae (mainly due to my backgrounde). I know from experience that once Metol dissolves (no sulphite) it goes reddish brown in solution but when the sulphite is added it re-rejuvenates it.

However this may be far more important in certain formulae than others.

Ian

gainer · Sep 27, 2009

The last Metol I had did not turn brown in solution. Does debrowning necessarilly mean regeneration, or simply inactivating the bad part? What I read was specifically directed at the difference between sulfite and ascorbic acid. A very small amount of ascorbic acid would as well debrown the solution. Hydroquinone + sulfite will also. It would be interesting to compare the two methods of mixing for initial activity and longevity using some of the ancient Metol that turns up now and then.

I was born in 1927. All the French celebrate my birthdate. They think it's Bastille Day or something like that.

hadeer · Sep 29, 2009

gainer said:
I wonder wherefrom came the admonition to dissolve the Metol along with a pinch of sulfite before everything else.

I never do and to my opinion it makes no difference. I make my D-76H (Grant Haist formula, no hydroquinone) from raw chemicals, most of the time just enough to make developer for the film at hand, directly in a 1:1 solution and use it right away. Worst problem: cool it down sufficiently fast. I get consistent results after initial testing with 2-3 films with good tonescale and density on Tmax 400 as well as Tmax 100.
I wonder if one could dissolve all the chemicals in one batch instead of adding them one by one. Never tried. Anyone? Seems to be the case with the commercial available D-76 from Kodak.
Hans

BradS · Sep 29, 2009

hadeer said:
I never do and to my opinion it makes no difference. I make my D-76H (Grant Haist formula, no hydroquinone) from raw chemicals, most of the time just enough to make developer for the film at hand, directly in a 1:1 solution and use it right away. Worst problem: cool it down sufficiently fast. I get consistent results after initial testing with 2-3 films with good tonescale and density on Tmax 400 as well as Tmax 100.
I wonder if one could dissolve all the chemicals in one batch instead of adding them one by one. Never tried. Anyone? Seems to be the case with the commercial available D-76 from Kodak.
Hans

The metol will not dissolve in the sulfite solution. There's special magic in the Kodak manufacturing process that makes it work. This has been discussed/ alluded to elsewhere.

Home made D76 with raw chemistry?

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