High End Lab Experience

[ChrisW]

I just received a fiber based exhibition print of 30 by 40 inches. This little act of vanity cost me $700, and took well over a month to produce. Are the following observations accepted practice for NYC high end labs?

1. Two edges were hand torn, one was cut unevenly, one was straight as it was the edge of the roll.

2. I asked, if possible, for a 30x40 print with a 2 inch border. I got a border that varies between 1.25 and 1.5 inches. The image is 28.75 by 36.9 inches.

3. There is a fairly obvious mark in the image that appears to be dark scribbling. It is part of the paper's emulsion, so it happened during projection.

The print has to go back for reason number 3, but should I accept the same border treatment? I realize this size paper comes off rolls requiring three sides be cut, but we are talking about a lab that comes highly recommended. If this is standard for large prints, please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[wfe]

I have no experience with high end labs but it seems to me that for $700 it should be perfect and it does not appear that this lab is "high end" except for price.


Regards,
Bill

 

[wilsonneal]

Agreed. You don't specify which lab, but I would say that what you describe is unacceptable for custom work. For that kind of money you should be getting exactly what you want, including the exact borders you're asking for.
Neal

 

[jim appleyard]

1) Was a fiber-based print what you wanted?

2) Edges should be perfect.

3) If you asked for a 2" border, and they couldn't do it, they should have told you.

4) There should be nothing on the print except the image from the neg. No dust, etc.

 

[mark]

Call them and have a freaking fit. Even a low end lab would expect to be called on the carpet for sending out crap, which is what they did. Demand that they do it again.

 

[Donald Miller]

Seven hundred is a lot of money for a print of that size...even for a "high end" custom print..irrespective of what you received.

 

[agGNOME]

Without question you should either get a refund or have a perfect (from the printer's end) print in your hands for that exhibition price. I've worked in custom labs, and there is no way I would have sent out a standard 10.00 print the way in wich you describe. If , for some reason your spec.s were not able to be met , it should have been discussed before taking in the job. If problems arose during printing they should have contacted you.
They should have the ability to trim after printing for any size they produce. As far as the uneven border, where there's a will there's a way. Even if they had limitations in their equipment it's not hard to fashion a mat board cut to size, and then weighed down to be flat on a borderless easel. (BTW, if you have pre-determined border sizes this is an easy way to avoid buying that expensive four-bladed easel and still get the professional result.)

 

[GraemeMitchell]

this city sucks in this regard.

i've never got so much crappy looking film back since i've moved here (dirty, scratched, sleeved while still wet!, etc etc). And i'm talking about from the BEST labs in the city.

don't roll over for them b/c you're not a big name shooter. talk to the lab owner and let him know the work was crap and you expect perfection.

what lab was it anyway? just for future reference.

 

[ChrisW]

1) Was a fiber-based print what you wanted?

2) Edges should be perfect.

3) If you asked for a 2" border, and they couldn't do it, they should have told you.

4) There should be nothing on the print except the image from the neg. No dust, etc.

Jim:

I did ask for FB. And the image is outstanding considering it came off a 120 neg of Technical Pan.

 

[ChrisW]

Thanks all for the advice. this was my first use of a high end lab, and I wanted to make sure I was correct in my assesment before responding to the lab. I must say I was shocked.

Chris

 

[jim appleyard]

That size is not uheard of from Tech Pan, especially a 120 neg; the stuff is virtually grainless.

$700 seems like a lot, but when you consider that it's FB, burning/dodging, spotting, etc...I'm not sure about the price, but the edges should be perfect and NO scribbling doo-dads on the paper.

 

[removed account4]

it is good that you are sending the print back.
ask to speak to the lab manager or owner and show them your concerns.

it seems like a lot of money for a print.
and for that kind of money it should be perfect.

-john

 

[naturephoto1]

Though I print through a custom lab in color onto a Chromira machine or a Lightjet printer from transparencies, that price seems exceedingly high for a 30" x 40" B&W print. For that price, the print should be perfect or as close to it as possible.

Rich

 

[firecracker]

Just to give you a little reference, in Japan, one pro lab in Tokyo charges about 100 USD as the basic charge for a 11x14" custom FB print. Then you add dodging & Burning-in, as well as toning and flattening as separate charges. So, by the time you get your final print, it'll cost you probably close to 200 USD.

That's a lot for a print if you need many, but that's for the 11x14" size.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Well, certainly an "exhibition" print shouldn't have things like hair in the neg carrier showing up on the print, so you're right to send it back for that reason, and tell them you would like clean borders of at least 2" next time. Arguably, if they tear the paper, some clients might like the choice of clean or ragged border, and it's easy enough to cut it oneself, but if you want 2", then specify that you REALLY want 2", which is not an unreasonable request.

Otherwise--how was the print? I know a high-end BW lab in NYC that charges $700 for a 30x40 (choice of 2-3 variations), and the work I've seen from them has generally been excellent, though I haven't sent them my own work, since I usually print my own B&W.

 

[BruceN]

Wow. Maybe I'm in the wrong business. For that kind of money you should not only get perfect results, but they should greet you with a martini and a massage accompanied by major a** kissing. It seems to me that you could both save money and gain quality by sending your work out to one of the midwest labs, or even one of the west coast ones. I could be wrong, of course...

Bruce

 

[m_liddell]

$700!? wow. If they really are a high end lab they should redo the print free of charge if you are unhappy with it FOR ANY REASON AT ALL. This policy is common for pro labs, you are paying for their expertise and excellent service. I can't belive they would even send it to you in that state! Every print they produce is a direct reflection on them and has a huge impact on their reputation - maybe they haven't figured this out yet.

I recently had a print done by Robin Bell in London. A 16x12" on fibre was £48 in total and he seems to be the most expensive printer around, but when you see his client list you can see why. He did do an amazing job.

 

[GraemeMitchell]

the advice to use a lab outside of NYC is not bad. unless you're doing supervised printing, you can get much of the same quality minus the nyc headaches.

most of my printing is digital, but I send it all to one of the west coast houses. the quality is as good as NYC, the service is way better, and the price is about half.

though I'd understand if you didn't want to get in the habit of shipping negs around...

 

[antielectrons]

For that sort of money you could buy a SH enlarger and do it yourself! That is outrageous pricing.

 

[ChrisW]

Otherwise--how was the print? I know a high-end BW lab in NYC that charges $700 for a 30x40 (choice of 2-3 variations), and the work I've seen from them has generally been excellent, though I haven't sent them my own work, since I usually print my own B&W.

David the print was beautiful. Their lens produced a sharp image,and the paper gives great image depth. You know exactly who this is, and frankly I also am amazed they would deliver such a mess. I will call on Monday and arrange for a replacement. If the replacement meets all of my initial requirements, I will spare them a most embarrassing posting using names, numbers, and photos of the results.

Thanks to everyone for clearing this up for me. Enjoy your weekend.

Chris

 

[GraemeMitchell]

oh, $700 w/ variations included, if it's the place I think it is talk to the owner and he'll be cool. great lab really, just spread a little thin at times w/ big jobs. for what it's worth, they're who I was talking about when I said I've gotten some gnarely 35mm film back. luckily they always redeem themselves when they make the impossible happen with my film, or price breaks to help on personal work, etc.

 

[ChrisW]

Spoke to the lab this morning. No worries. They were very apologetic. The print was supposed to be trimmed before release, and the mark in the print went undetected. They are happy to re print and credit the shipping.

For those who questioned the cost, I have tried 30x40 prints with borders, and it is tough without a dedicated easel. The FB rolls are $340, the proper trays will set you back $100 each, and properly washing paper this size is a challenge. The enlarger lens must be APO or a EI Nikkor. Not cheap.

Thanks again for the insight.

 

[gr82bart]

So what's the name of the NYC lab? I'd like to know.

I can tell you that I have been working with Bob Carnie at Elevator and he would've sent you the print with NONE of those issues the first time. Plus he'll deliver world wide.

Elevator is one the best in North America and better than all but but one in NYC.

Regards, Art.

 

[Shane Knight]

Hello Chris,

I have been working with pro labs for a long time, and what makes a good lab is one that will understand what your needs, expectations, and your relationship with your art. Traditional prints do not come out perfect everytime and sometimes they need to be redone for one reason or another. I am not worried about photographs being printed perfect everytime the first time, but the ability to learn and redo until they get it right.

If for some reason your relationship does not grow with your current lab and you need reference on another, I recommend www.hiddenlightllc.com .

Hidden Light is only interested in 100% Traditional Processes (Silver, Ilfochrome, Platinum Pla., tin typs, etc.)

I hope it works out!

Shane Knight
www.shaneknight.com

 

[ChrisW]

Art:

I'd rather not identify the lab. The Two mistakes were acceptable, and were just that: mistakes. The final trim was to be delegated, and it was sent out by mistake. The mark in the image was not noticed due to the subject matter. Otherwise the image is outstanding and exceeds my expectations. While I was waiting for the initial order to arrive, I shot the subject again with better results. The lab agreed to replace the first print with the newer negative. That more than made up for the inconvenience. Thanks for the information on Elevator. I need to stick with NYC for convenience.

Shane:

Good advice on expectations from the lab. Also, the link to Hidden Light is dead. I'll try to find it. Thanks.

Chris