Help picking LF lenses, etc to start with

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craigclu

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I purchased a Zone VI field camera and am deciding on optics, etc. I notice that the Fujinons tend to be more affordable used than the German options. Is this a direct reflection on their quality? I've developed a positive feeling for any optics by Fuji after good experiences with various MF rangefinders that I've owned and was just assuming that their LF optics would be good performers, too. I'm not absolutely certain of what duties I'll settle into with this camera but likely outdoor pictorial primarily. I was thinking of a 210 workhorse lens and something wide to complement it.

I've had some past experience some years back with LF but just with various Graflex rigs and moderate quality optics (Ektars, Xenars). I've got an old Yankee daylight tank someplace and a 150mm Rodagon for printing. I'm assuming this is decent enough for printing, at least to start with? Any film holders to avoid? I've got a Rodenstock 4X loupe, is this adequate for ground glass duty?
 

David A. Goldfarb

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Your 150mm Rodagon is a good lens, and a Rodenstock 4X loupe is excellent. Not many people get on well with the Yankee tank, but if it's worked for you, it will do for now.

Fuji lenses are decent lenses. The older Schneider Symmar convertibles are particularly good values in terms of price for performance.

Most of the standard filmholders are good as long as they're in good condition--Lisco, Fidelity, Riteway, old wooden holders made by Graflex (but use Graphic-type, not Graflex-type, which are larger) and other companies--they're all suitable. Toyo holders are made to slightly tighter tolerances, and there are other options like Grafmatics, Kinematics, Quickload and Readyload. I think the only holders to avoid are Tiltall holders that you sometimes see on eBay for cheap, because they don't have a lock rib. What they are intended for nobody seems to know.
 

Ole

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Generally speaking, all LF lenses made in the last 60 years or so are good lenses. Fujinons, Schneiders, Rodenstocks, Nikkors - excepting damage and the occasional "dud", they are all plenty good enough!

I've noticed that the price of the old convertible Symmars has been creeping up, so that a newer Symmar-S can often be found for about the same amount. I fear some might blame me for that, just like the price increase on old Angulons...

Since you mentioned Xenars, you might want to look for one of the last ones of that type: The 210mm f:6.1 Xenar. They are great lenses, and far smaller than the older f:4.5 version. Mine is one of my most used lenses on 4x5", and gets occasional use on 5x7" too.
 
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I'm starting with a Rodenstock Geronar, an Ilex Anastigmat of some flavor that is as yet unknown, and this little gem that was a spur of the moment purchase.

I'm impulsive. Pretty soon I'm going to have more lenses than Ole and nowhere to put them. :D
 

mark

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Nothing wrong with fuji lenses. I have a 90mm fuji something that looks really good on the GG, I have not had the chance to shoot it yet. My other lenses are a mix of other brands. I sometimes think lens brands are like cigarette brands. Some people stick to one and tote their excellence, when in reality they all give you cancer (the cigarettes not the lenses). There are some people here doing some really cool stuff with really old cheap lenses.
 

Nick Zentena

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Some of the Fuji are much sought after.

The first W line had more coverage and are fairly small up to the 210mm

The A are sought after.

Fuji makes a wide angle 105 that is much cheaper then the 110xl on the used market.
 

coriana6jp

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I have quite a few Fujinon lenses, and have had a chance to use just about every lens Fuji currently makes. I have never had a dud yet. They are all extremely sharp and equal to anything out there.

Actually Fuji makes 2 105mm lenses currently. The 105mm CMW which has a 67mm filter size and an IC of 180mm. And the 105mm SW f/8 which uses 77mm filters has a 260mm IC. Both are great lenses.

Gary
 

John Kasaian

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I've had some past experience some years back with LF but just with various Graflex rigs and moderate quality optics (Ektars, Xenars). I've got an old Yankee daylight tank someplace and a 150mm Rodagon for printing. I'm assuming this is decent enough for printing, at least to start with? Any film holders to avoid? I've got a Rodenstock 4X loupe, is this adequate for ground glass duty?

A 203 Ektar and a 135 WF Ektar are moderate quality?
Craig, Craig...tsk...tsk!

As for your other questions:

A Yankee daylight tank makes a mighty fine pencil holder. Just throw the lid and the guts away---you'll be able to keep a lot of pencils in 'er.

The Rodagon is a fine lens for enlarging.

A Rodenstock loupe is a fine loupe for fine focusing.

2 out of 3 ain't bad. Just don't go around trash talkin' those Ektars!:wink:
 
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craigclu

craigclu

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As was I - but about the Xenars. :wink:

Apologies for the unfortunate wording I used! I was thinking in terms of modern design/APO German glass vs the "heritage" glass that I had used some years ago and simply didn't express my self very clearly.

What's really in the back of my mind is the thought of what is needed to see gains from my medium format gear. Besides the swing/tilt capabilities, I'd like to also gain some basic tonality and resolution for the extra work of the LF. I've got good, modern MF gear and APO glass for enlarging it and am actually quite pleased with my results but have wanted to experiment with a LF field camera. I think I'll give some Fuji glass a try and if I feel I need something beyond that, I'll develop a sense of needed focal lengths in the interim.

I live in a rural, somewhat isolated locale and APUG is my "campfire" to sit around for gaining insight and learning from others. Many thanks for your help, all!
 

Ole

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No apologies needed, Craig. :wink:

Much of the difference between MF and LF is simply due to the larger film area, which almost inadvertently improves tonality and resolution.

Good modern LF glass is not necessarily sharper than "heritage" optics, but it will usually have more even sharpness and illumination than the old lenses. The sharpest LF negative I have was shot with a ca. 1905 Meyer Aristoplanat 270mm f:7.2 - a late Aplanat (or Rapid Rectilinear) which was even then largely replaced by the new-fangled anastigmats. Yes - a lens type which was "unmodern" a century ago still has a maximum resolution at least as good as any new Apochromatic lens! But the sharpness is not as even across the entire image field as from a modern lens.

APO-enlarger lenses are well corrected across a wider range of enlargements than non-apo lenses are. But most of the time you will be operating well within the optimum range of the "plain Rodagon", where the difference between the two versions is truly negligible - and less than individual sample variations.

In short - even using Ektars, Xenars (or Aplanats) and non-APO enlarger lenses, you will see a difference between MF and LF. And you will be very, very close to what can be done by the very finest (and most expensive) Super-Apo-XL-GTi gear. :smile:
 

2F/2F

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Hello,

First of all, Fuji lenses are fine lenses. No worries there.

A lot what lenses you choose to own has to do with what you shoot with 4x5.

I personally would feel very stuck without something LONG. So I got a 360. I use it for LOTS of things.

Others say why in blazes do you need such a long lens on 4x5?

I say:

1. So I can back off from the subject if I want to make near and far objects appear closer together.

2. So I can get a tighter angle of view when I can't get any closer.

3. So I have HUGE amounts of available movements for tabletop stuff.

4. Because it will also cover 8x10 and 11x14 film!

Those are the things you need to consider:

1. desired distortion, or lack thereof

2. Working distances

3. Needed movements

4. What film formats you want to use/may want to use some day.

For a standard studio lens, I lean toward a 240. It is a little bit long (lets you back off from subject to show less of background and apparently compress depth), has a ton of image circle on 4x5, and best of all: it is multi-format usable, which I value a lot. Most use a 210 because they are smaller, and have plenty of movements 99% of the time. Either one will be a great choice. 210s are plentiful and relatively cheap.

So that is your standard lens.

300s are a good bargain and very useful for when you want something long.

Something like a 135 would be a moderate wide. A 90 is very wide. Anything wider than 90 is getting toward "super wide", and usually pretty expensive, not very useful for most people's style of shooting, and very few movements, although there are exceptions. Although a 90mm may be too wide a lot of the time, it is a very versatile lens, and can also do great macro work quite easily. If the 210 is the most common standard studio workhorse lens, the 90mm is easily the most common wide-angle workhorse for 4x5. As such, they are plentiful and affordable. You can save a lot by getting an f/8 model 90mm to start. Wides generally have little available movement (relatively), so my wide of choice is the Schneider 121mm f/8, which can cover 8x10 with just a little vignetting if I actually wanted something that crazily wide. It is also a GREAT AOV on both 4x5 and 5x7 film. Way too wide for my taste on 8x10.

My favorite AOV calculator is http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/photos/angles.html. I print them out and use it to compare vertical and horizontal AOVs between formats. I ignore diagonal AOVs, as it doesn't help much to compare them between different aspect ratios. This would be a good way to get an idea of what lenses will have AOVs you want by comparing them to your 35. Note: You want to compare horizontal AOVs for horizontal shots, and vertical AOVs for vetical shots. A 4x5 lens that has the same horizontal AOV as a 35mm lens on small format will have a wider vertical AOV than the same small format lens. Once you get used to the lenses, you don't even have to look at the charts much, bt I like to anyhow.

In short, I would consider the basic "starter" kit to be a 90mm and a 210mm that is convertible. That will cover a lot of situations, and then you will have good reference points for future needs if you end up staying serious about large format.

2F/2F
 
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John Kasaian

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What 2F/2F says, I'll add : also take into consideration the bellows length and the size of lensboard your camera takes!
 

mikebarger

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Since this thread has a lot about Fujinon LF lens. I have one I can not find any information on it.

300mm S f5.6 in a Copal 3 and it has a 82mm filter.

Anyone know anything about it?

Thanks

Mike
 
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coriana6jp

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Since this thread has a lot about Fujinon LF lens. I have one I can not find any information on it.

300mm S f5.6 in a Copal 3 and it has a 82mm filter.

Anyone know anything about it?

Thanks

Mike


I have one as well. Its one of the earlier series of Fuji lenses, it was introduced prior the single coated W series back in the early 70s. I can't give you an exact age, but its probably everybit 40 to 45 years old. The image circle is fairly large, mine will cover 11x14, and perhaps beyond though I havent tried it yet. I have never found any published specs for the S series either. Besides the 300mm S, I also have a 210S and a 360S so I am not sure if there were others in the series.

Hope it helps.

Gary
 

mikebarger

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Thanks Gary

I thought I was the only person on the planet to own one of these!

I had posted here and over on the LF forum several times and had not got a single response.

I'm plenty happy with the lens, I just have NEVER seen any information on it. I'd buy a 210mm S if one came up, I like the 300mm so well.

What size filters does your 210 take?

Thanks again

Mike
 

Soeren

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A 203 Ektar and a 135 WF Ektar are moderate quality?
Craig, Craig...tsk...tsk!>SNIP

SNIP<
Just don't go around trash talkin' those Ektars!:wink:

On the contrary, please continue the trash talking. And lets have some on the convertible Symmars, Petzvals, Heliars and the Voigtländer Bergheil as well. :D
Guess what I'm looking for :smile:
Kind regards
 

coriana6jp

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Thanks Gary

I thought I was the only person on the planet to own one of these!

I had posted here and over on the LF forum several times and had not got a single response.

I'm plenty happy with the lens, I just have NEVER seen any information on it. I'd buy a 210mm S if one came up, I like the 300mm so well.

What size filters does your 210 take?

Thanks again

Mike

The 210mm takes 67mm filters.

Glad I could help.

Gary
 

coriana6jp

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Gary

Do you know if this is a 3 or 3S copal, I'm not use I know what the difference is.

Thanks

Mike

Its normal, albeit an older Copal 3. The only Fujinon lens thats mounted in Copal 3s is the 250mm Soft Focus lens. I

The main difference between a normal Copal 3 and a 3s is the size of the bore. I forget the difference but I think its about 8 or 9mm.

HOpe it helps.

Gary
 

mikebarger

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Thanks again Gary.

While your on a roll, do you know if a seiko 0 and copal 0 require the same size hole in the lens board?

thanks
 

Øyvind:D

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Mine 300 5,6 Fujinon has a Copal 3S with 82mm filter and with text on the ring, and I saw a 300 5.6 Fujinon-W with 77mm filter with text on the barrel in Copal 3S.

I'm looking for a 300 Fujinon i Copal 3 to use the shutter for other things also.

What, if any 300 5.6 Fujinon are in Copal 3?
 
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