Has anybody tried ECN-2 developer kit from QWD?

[AgX]

"2-in-one" = blix

 

[Auer]

What do you mean by '2 in one' is this a two step developer?

Dev+Prebath, I have no clue if that matters.

I never used it any other way than just dev and fix, no stop or bleach. Very simple.

"It is specially formulated without compromise for modern color films, not requiring a stabilizer bath. Modern emulsions were designed so that one-hour photo labs wouldn't need haz-mat training for formaldehyde, and have built-in dye stabilizers and hardeners that are released through the simplified 2-bath process. You can have beautifully developed, bleached and fixed color negatives, ready to scan or print. All you need is water, a thermometer and any simple tank and reel system! "

 

[mohmad khatab]

Finally, some results. These are all expired Visions2 250D from a 400ft recan that's been in my fridge for about 7 years. I made a little jig to wind it onto leftover 100ft core in a dark bag and then spooled it onto cassettes from a bulk loader. This is my second-time-ever attempt at color processing. I concentrated mainly on getting as many different lighting conditions and colors as I could find. I have read that cinema film in general is pretty low contrast so it can catch more light information which is then expanded when copied to higher contrast emulsion for projecting. I have been pretty amazed at how much photoshop adjustments can bring out of even some of the most underexposed shots. I'm not very good at color adjustments and some shots seemed almost impossible to get anywhere near correct. That may be due to the age of the film. Photo Engineer used to get quite incensed when people wanted to learn processing with expired film. It was like getting yelled at by someone else's Dad.

Please feel free to make any and all comments and criticisms!


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Mr.: Honorable from Corlorado
Congratulation
great results,
Good luck

 

[Cholentpot]

"2-in-one" = blix

There's no Blix. It's just a dev.

 

[pbromaghin]

Mr.: Honorable from Corlorado
Congratulation
great results,
Good luck

Well, thank you sir. I did pick up 55ft (enough for 10 36exp rolls) of 50D from Freestyle and am waiting until I shoot all that and a few more of the 250D before buying a new development kit. I'm still not sure if color is really what I want to do or how deep I want to go into it. Vision3 on 400ft rolls and home processing is the cheapest way there is to shoot color film. But I really do prefer medium format B&W to about everything else. I find processing color too stressful.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Well, thank you sir. I did pick up 55ft (enough for 10 36exp rolls) of 50D from Freestyle and am waiting until I shoot all that and a few more of the 250D before buying a new development kit. I'm still not sure if color is really what I want to do or how deep I want to go into it. Vision3 on 400ft rolls and home processing is the cheapest way there is to shoot color film. But I really do prefer medium format B&W to about everything else. I find processing color too stressful.

Developing a color film is inevitably a stressful thing, that's normal.
What do you expect?
Did you expect to get a color image without the effort and sweat?!
And what will you say when you say to develop transparency (E6)!
Then you will have to make a double effort.
This is the hobby of photography, we do a lot of effort for it and we are happy.

 

[Cholentpot]

Well, thank you sir. I did pick up 55ft (enough for 10 36exp rolls) of 50D from Freestyle and am waiting until I shoot all that and a few more of the 250D before buying a new development kit. I'm still not sure if color is really what I want to do or how deep I want to go into it. Vision3 on 400ft rolls and home processing is the cheapest way there is to shoot color film. But I really do prefer medium format B&W to about everything else. I find processing color too stressful.

Short-ends and re-cans are your friends. You can get the cost down so far that a roll costs pennies and the real cost is how far you can take a dev kit before it fails. I get about 35 rolls out of them before I start a new one.

 

[pbromaghin]

Short-ends and re-cans are your friends. You can get the cost down so far that a roll costs pennies and the real cost is how far you can take a dev kit before it fails. I get about 35 rolls out of them before I start a new one.

You're right about the re-cans and short-ends, but I'll leave them to aspiring and struggling young film makers. Finding them is more effort than I want to put out. But wow, 35 rolls from a 16-roll kit is good work! At my volume I don't know if a kit would even last long enough for me to put that many through

 

[Cholentpot]

You're right about the re-cans and short-ends, but I'll leave them to aspiring and struggling young film makers. Finding them is more effort than I want to put out. But wow, 35 rolls from a 16-roll kit is good work! At my volume I don't know if a kit would even last long enough for me to put that many through

I use it for about 6 months, maybe longer. I pushed one to nearly 50 rolls at one point. Times started getting too long though.

 

[AndrewBurns]

I've used the old-type QWD kit a fair bit, always with fresh vision 3 and paying a lot of attention to the quality of results (even and consistent base density, colour accuracy etc.) My experience has been that it works perfectly fine, and I was much happier with the results of using the ECN2 kit vs. when I've processed vision 3 using C41 in the past. I can't comment on the new stop as I haven't tried it, but with the old kit I've used both a dilute vinegar bath and kodak indicator stop (which is also just acetic acid, but as a concentrate with indicator, cheaper in the long-run). Both worked for at least 4 x re-uses but I did have issues when I let the stop get exhausted and I wasn't processing much film at a time, so my advice would be keep the stop nice and strong and one or two-shot if you're using acetic acid/vinegar.

I also found that good washes between stop/bleach and bleach/fix gave the best results, 3 x quick water changes in the tank worked fine.

 

[mohmad khatab]

I use it for about 6 months, maybe longer. I pushed one to nearly 50 rolls at one point. Times started getting too long though.

You are thus answering an important question that I have always been looking for an answer to and have never had a definitive answer to before.
Can you give me more details about the issue of time management when you use this chemistry.
For example: You used chemistry when it was new to standard timings, of course, I'm curious to know what development time you used to develop the last roll before getting rid of that chemistry.?

 

[Cholentpot]

You are thus answering an important question that I have always been looking for an answer to and have never had a definitive answer to before.
Can you give me more details about the issue of time management when you use this chemistry.
For example: You used chemistry when it was new to standard timings, of course, I'm curious to know what development time you used to develop the last roll before getting rid of that chemistry.?

A per my notes.

Roll #41 Development bath 7:00 minutes. Blix bath 16 minutes.

Argus C3, Vision3 500T

 

[mohmad khatab]

A per my notes.

Roll #41 Development bath 7:00 minutes. Blix bath 16 minutes.

Argus C3, Vision3 500T

God bless you sir: Chollentpot
thank you for caring ,
Let me know, is there a (arithmetic or linear) or logarithmic sequence to work through to get semi-standard results? Or is it only subject to experience and expertise?

 

[Cholentpot]

God bless you sir: Chollentpot
thank you for caring ,
Let me know, is there a (arithmetic or linear) or logarithmic sequence to work through to get semi-standard results? Or is it only subject to experience and expertise?

I add approximately 30 seconds every 4 rolls past roll 16. So, Roll 16 is 3min, roll 20 is 3:30 etc and etc. When the blix gets too long I switch over to agitation every minute instead of every 30 seconds.

There is no standard for results however. You will also need a bit of digital adjustment in post processing as the colors can and do shift.

 

[mohmad khatab]

I add approximately 30 seconds every 4 rolls past roll 16. So, Roll 16 is 3min, roll 20 is 3:30 etc and etc. When the blix gets too long I switch over to agitation every minute instead of every 30 seconds.

There is no standard for results however. You will also need a bit of digital adjustment in post processing as the colors can and do shift.

Yes, I understand your point of view.
But according to my information, the ECN2 process is supposed to depend on bleach and fixer, not Blix.

 

[Cholentpot]

Yes, I understand your point of view.
But according to my information, the ECN2 process is supposed to depend on bleach and fixer, not Blix.

I'm not using ECN-2.

I am using C-41.

 

[AgX]

Yes, I understand your point of view.
But according to my information, the ECN2 process is supposed to depend on bleach and fixer, not Blix.

ECN-2 is a pure commercial process. Thus there is split bleach and fixer.
I assume that with a blix the results would be same in its process as with blix in C-41.

 

[mohmad khatab]

ECN-2 is a pure commercial process. Thus there is split bleach and fixer.
I assume that with a blix the results would be same in its process as with blix in C-41.

+1

 

[pwadoc]

Also, the development process is now 100f, for 4 minutes! This really caught me off guard! I asked them if I can still run 106f for shorter time if it would improve results (or make a difference at all!) but never received a reply.
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I'm a little dubious about this change. I can't imagine that changing the temp/time for a process like this wouldn't result in a color shifts. I'm guessing this is because the documented 41.1C bath temp for the bath is too high for the bleach and fix? Does anyone know what the consequences of using bleach and fix at too high a temperature is?

 

[unwantedfocus]

An alternative are kits they sell on ETSY. Also very Useful Kodak ECN-2 Specifications.

 

[pwadoc]

Kodak ECN-2 Specifications

I mix my own ECN-2 developer using the published formula from the ECN-2 specifications (along with flexicolor C-41 bleach and fix) and it... mostly works. Like, I get a usable image from scans, which is fine given that these negatives can't be used for printing in the darkroom, but I run control strips with my process and according to the measurements I'm making the density of the resulting negatives is off by a wide margin. I'm going to try both the cinestill dev and the QWD stuff and see if I get better results. I'm not sure what could possibly be wrong with the stuff I'm mixing, since the pH and specific gravity are correct.

 

[unwantedfocus]

I mix my own ECN-2 developer using the published formula from the ECN-2 specifications (along with flexicolor C-41 bleach and fix) and it

The biggest Problem in the EU is that laws are Iffy on chemicals, Borax for example is banned and some other things are hard to obtain or even illegal. I totally gave up on ECN-2 for that reason. The QWD from what I have have seen has not many great reviews, i read once a comment which praised the QWD kit for its accessibility for filmmakers that they are able to shoot locations and develop the film quick for results. I would love to try the original recipe but getting in trouble over some rolls of Kodak vision is not worth it. Maybe the chemical restriction is the reason why no true ECN-2 kit is commercially sold in powder form. I'm not an expert correct me if you know more about this topic.

 

[pwadoc]

The biggest Problem in the EU is that laws are Iffy on chemicals, Borax for example is banned and some other things are hard to obtain or even illegal. I totally gave up on ECN-2 for that reason. The QWD from what I have have seen has not many great reviews, i read once a comment which praised the QWD kit for its accessibility for filmmakers that they are able to shoot locations and develop the film quick for results. I would love to try the original recipe but getting in trouble over some rolls of Kodak vision is not worth it. Maybe the chemical restriction is the reason why no true ECN-2 kit is commercially sold in powder form. I'm not an expert correct me if you know more about this topic.

Ah yeah, I don't know much about EU chemical sale restrictions as I live in the US. I can see how it would be difficult to DIY stuff in that context.

 

[AgX]

What seemingly even was meant to be to the benefit of the consumer, to establish staggered restrictions starting at age, is to my perception so complex that some dealer rather refrain from sale to consumer where they still could do.

 

[pbromaghin]

An alternative are kits they sell on ETSY. Also very Useful Kodak ECN-2 Specifications.

That kit on ETSY is a lot cheaper than QWD.