Hand agitation vs automated

cyno2023053.jpg

H
cyno2023053.jpg

  • 9
  • 2
  • 110
Molt 001

Molt 001

  • 8
  • 4
  • 126
Edison

H
Edison

  • 1
  • 0
  • 96
Edison

H
Edison

  • 2
  • 0
  • 100

Forum statistics

Threads
183,003
Messages
2,536,719
Members
95,705
Latest member
talzand
Recent bookmarks
0

scinysnaps

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
58
Shooter
Medium Format
Hi,
Was just wondering if anyone could tell me...

Do I need to adjust my developing times from what I use with hand agitation if I am switching to a Jobo CPE2, which I assume is continuos
agitation/rotation ?

Thanks
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
7,174
Location
Milton, DE USA
Shooter
Multi Format
Wirelessly posted (BBBold: BlackBerry9000/4.6.0.297 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102 UP.Link/6.3.0.0.0)

I am curious. Wouldn't continuous agitation equate to more contrast in the negative?
 

bdial

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
7,235
Location
North East U.S.
Shooter
Multi Format
I am curious. Wouldn't continuous agitation equate to more contrast in the negative?
Yes, it does. Which is why you compensate for that with less developing time.
 
OP
OP
scinysnaps

scinysnaps

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
58
Shooter
Medium Format
Aaaaah, thought as much.. BUT how much less are we talking about? in terms of percentage?? Is there a rough guide. The Kodak e-publication will only help me out in a few situations.
If I am using the Massive Dev chart as a guide to the numerous film/dev combinations, a percentage would be useful. I am assuming the CPE-2 HAS to be continuos in its rotation because of the horizontal position of the tank..??
 

Mike Wilde

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
2,907
Location
Misissauaga
Shooter
Multi Format
The starting point I have used in the past, as guided by some kind of old Kodak doc was to cut 15% of the time moving from intermittent agitaion to continuous agitation.

If you are going to use Stock A + Stock B +water pyro developers, take care, as the continuous causes the A of pmk etc to die faster due to aerial oxidation rates being faster with continuous agitation. A solution is to change from 1+2+100 to 2+2+100, with the second 1 of A added half way though the development time.
 

MikeSeb

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
1,104
Location
Denver, CO
Shooter
Medium Format
I'd recommend starting with about 15% off the published small-tank times, or 5-10% off the rotary-tank times, where those are available.
 

Lee L

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
3,280
Shooter
Multi Format
As mentioned before, Kodak does have recommendations for rotary processing times with some film/developer combinations.

Latest recommendation for general use from Jobo that I'm aware of says do a 5 minute water pre-soak followed by the same times as standard intermittent small tank inversion agitation. This works for a large majority of film/developer combinations, but not necessarily all of them.

Lee
 
OP
OP
scinysnaps

scinysnaps

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
58
Shooter
Medium Format
While not intending to disagree with anyone here, I would just humbly like to pose this question..
While it makes perfect sense that technically, continuos agitation should require shorter times... However, should you take into account the fact that the film is not fully submerged in the chemicals during the course of its rotation? and would not be developing at the same rate as a fully immersed/intermittently agitated small tank?
Therefore the Jobo recommendation makes more sense.
Or should I run a test roll at -15%
 

Bosaiya

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
396
Location
Sumner, Wash
Shooter
4x5 Format
Start with 10% less, it's easier math. The film is still in constant contact with the chemicals during the rotation, they are streaming down the sides. It would have to be intermittent rotation for them to not be constantly bathed.

Even when developed to the same relative density I find that the negatives from a rotation method have a different look than those done with intermittent or stand development.
 
OP
OP
scinysnaps

scinysnaps

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
58
Shooter
Medium Format
Start with 10% less, it's easier math. The film is still in constant contact with the chemicals during the rotation, they are streaming down the sides. It would have to be intermittent rotation for them to not be constantly bathed.

Even when developed to the same relative density I find that the negatives from a rotation method have a different look than those done with intermittent or stand development.

Yes, agreed... there would still be chemicals on the film. And 10% is much easier.. haha

In what way does it look different? Better or worse or just different??


Here's what I got from the "updated" Jobo instructions...


A five minute pre-rinse of any black and white film works with the developer to produce a negative with manageable contrast and good tonal range, using the manufacturer's recommended 'hand process' (intermittent agitation) times. To pre-rinse, put a quantity of process temperature water in the tank, equal to, or slightly greater than, the amount of developer. Allow this loaded tank to rotate on the processor for five minutes. At the end of that period, pour out the pre-rinse water, and pour in the developer. Pre-Rinse times shorter than five minutes may produce irregular development, and should be avoided.

If you do not want to use a pre-rinse, you will need to determine the appropriate developer time for each specific situation. Rotary agitation affects different film and developer/dilution combinations to differing extents. Some developing times may be essentially the same, while others are significantly shortened or even extended. As a rough guide, try shortening the developer time by about 15%. This could vary by anywhere from about -25% to +10% from the original 'hand process' (intermittent agitation) times. A five minute 'pre-warm' is recommended when foregoing the pre-rinse. This time allows the film, reel(s), and tank to stabilize at the development temperature, before the developing begins.
 

df cardwell

Subscriber
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
3,357
Location
Dearborn,Mic
Shooter
Multi Format
An overlooked aspect of development is that AGITATION is as much a variable as time or temperature.

With most film and developer combinations, you can control the relationship of the shadows, midtones, and highlights,
by the relationship of the three variables: agitation, time, and temperature.

Kodak has published data which talks about constant agitation with TMAX films: look under ROTARY TUBE agitation.
 

Bosaiya

Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
396
Location
Sumner, Wash
Shooter
4x5 Format
Yes, agreed... there would still be chemicals on the film. And 10% is much easier.. haha

In what way does it look different? Better or worse or just different??

I wouldn't say better or worse, just different. More contrast maybe, sharper edges. You know how it is with B&W photography: there are a million little variables that all produce subtle differences that most people would never notice but which keep those of us so afflicted up at night tossing and turning.
 
OP
OP
scinysnaps

scinysnaps

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
58
Shooter
Medium Format
yes, that is another can of worms...
Thanks for all the input
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom