Gum Over Pigment ( First Attempt)

Discussion in 'Wet and Dry Hybrid prints' started by Davec101, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. Davec101

    Davec101 Member

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    Have been trying lots of different ways of getting a colour image, by far the most succesfull is my first gum over pigment print (bonded to aluminum). Cyan and Magenta printed as a pigment print through the epson 3800, then applying yellow and black as gum. The print scan below has not had the k layer yet. I was thinking of whether platinum might go over the top of it all but it might not come out well, will try later and report on results

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Looks nice Dave!

    BTW, why not using cyanotype as the C layer? I know you're very competent w/ cyanotype...??? What are the specifics of not going down that - well known / almost standard - route?

    I wouldn't try any of the iron processes on top of gum layers myself. I don't say it won't work, but it may not work the way you like due to irregular surface - e.g. different thickness of gum layers forming the underlying image...

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
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    Davec101

    Davec101 Member

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    Am still be going down the cyanotype route, just want to try some other methods at the moment, its still early days. The main problem is the magenta layer, i am still not getting enough colour from it although i have yet to increase the saturation which i might try when i get the time.

    I was in madrid last week and saw some stunning gum over pigment prints and thought i would see what results i can get. Have just put the k layer down am waiting to dry and will post result.
     
  4. Colin Graham

    Colin Graham Member

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    Are you using proof view with the images file? I've been neglecting screen proofing and I think this was a big part of my desaturation problems. Even using a basic CMYK/ US web coated proof with simulate paper white checked gives a startlingly close facsimile of the desaturated colors I've been getting in my prints. It's pretty straightforward to manipulate the file to get it back to what you're going for.

    Pigment/alt prints are great though in their own right- my pigment kallitypes look so much like the screen files it's difficult to justify working so hard on tricolor gum.
     
  5. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Well, if I want a print that looks exactly what I see on the screen I just use inkjet... What makes me doing gum is the slow, multi-layering working style, letting the results (and serendipity) open the path to next move. I feel that prints done that way (interactively) have soul(!), unlike inkjet (or lambda) prints.

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
  6. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    What about lambda negs, they have no soul
    How about lambda fibre prints, they have no soul

    I think your statement is quite naive.
     
  7. Colin Graham

    Colin Graham Member

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    I'm sure we all have different goals Loris. Many of us print for clients in addition to ourselves. Not sure clients would enjoy my happy mistakes so much! But, I loath surprises- that's just me.
     
  8. donbga

    donbga Member

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    FWIW, I've seen 2 color gum over cyanotype that looks pretty good - complete with bright saturated colors made with 1 coat of each gum layer.

    Don
     
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    Davec101

    Davec101 Member

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    Yeah I bet they are, cant wait until i get the hang of it as i love the print characteristics of 2 color over cyanotype, i have found that adding another layer, making four layers in total makes the print have a really great finish that i like, although as before i have yet to get the colors the way i want yet.
     
  10. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Bob,

    I'm talking about the "final object". (The "soul" of the image itself is a complete other issue, BTW...) And yes, "to me", neigther lambda nor inket prints - as objects - have the soul that handmade print have, even the criteria is kept at bare minimum. Perhaps it's you who's being naive; by comparing lambda/inkjet "prints" (not negatives, I'm not talking about the "means"; it's all about - again - the "final object!) with alt-process prints, in terms of the soul(!) they have...

    Mannaggia! :smile:confused:smile:


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2010
  11. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Oh, yes. I can understand the need in case of printing for others. BUT, as someone that has witnessed (and still is witnessing) the frustation of many lab owner colleagues, in the struggle of satisfying customers "even in a context consisting of inkjet prints", there's no money in the world that would make me print tricolor gum / tricolor gum over cyanotype for someone else, that's for sure! :D

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
  12. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Which reminds me I need to send you some sample curves, I'll try to do that tonight or tomorrow.

    Don
     
  13. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Sorry Loris

    I consider multiple toned hand pressed lambda fibre prints as having soul.
    In fact they are as hand made as any print I could imagine you doing in your darkroom.
    Maybe you should investigate what they are before you belittle them.

    Mannaggaie,, is that suppose to mean something to me?

     
  14. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Thanks I'll take the money!

    Don
     
  15. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    "Lambda print" as a term, to me, doesn't mean something what you describe below (which I don't understand at all - unless you were being sarcastic, it makes sense then...), and I seriously doubt it would "generally" mean something "handmade" (or what you describe below) to someone else, especially given the fact that I used it along with "inkjet" - another term to that gives a clear indication of the context...


    ---------
    mannaggia: a generic expression of frustration, mostly used in Southern Italy; often translated as damn, but has no direct translation. Actually, it comes from the contraction of a former utterance, mal ne aggia, which literally means "may he/she get mischief out of it". Used also in English books, such as Mario Puzo's The Fortunate Pilgrim

    I doesn't have an english translation - could be understood as "gimme a break" (annoyed) where I used it... (I didn't liked the fact - at all! - that someone called me "naive", after I had expressed a "well considered" opinion...)


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2010
  16. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Don, be my guest and good luck! :wink: :D (Brave man!)

     
  17. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Loris

    thank you very much for reminding me of something.. I am getting old and I completely forgot the ignore user button on this site, but thanks to your verbal diarrhea my memory was jogged.
    sorry but I will have the last word.
     
  18. sanking

    sanking Member

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    I really don't understand the concept of "soul" in a print, or in a digital negative.

    I can relate to "soul" in music, but the concept leaves me cold in trying to describe the essence of a print.

    Sandy
     
  19. sly

    sly Subscriber
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    "soul"

    Loris, I totally get what you mean. I've got inkjet prints that other people have admired highly, and alt work that no one seems excited about but me. For me the work I've struggled with and had my hands on numerous times has got my heart and soul in it. The inkjet work is just documentation. This is personal - I'm sure there are folks who put their heart and soul into computer generated work, but not me, and apparently, not you either. When I'm looking at work few totally digital images speak to me, while I'm very drawn to traditional silver gelatin, and anything alt process - not that I get to see many of these in the flesh.
    I'm still trying to find my photographic voice, but I know I won't find it sitting in front of the computer. It's in the "potions" in my darkroom.

    Keep up the inspiring work and the helpful advice to those of us still finding our feet.
     
  20. iansand

    iansand Member

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    Interesting discussion. For me 'soul' is in the image not so much the support. However, the 'object' in most art forms has some trace of the creator, we can see the passage of time through their imperfections and corrections. Machine perfect prints have their value as do images on screen but the hand made print has something more, especially when combined with a strong image.

    Ian
     
  21. ropapp

    ropapp Member

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    I think the reason Loris has full ... is when you do not want the act of creating an image is transformed into a sequence of algorithms ...
     
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