Graded Paper Really Slow?

[mtnjunkie]

I've recently made my first foray into graded paper with a box of J&C Nuance.
So far the most striking thing I've noticed is how slow this papers seems? Am I doing something wrong?
I print at a local college darkroom using a besler 4X5 enlarger with an ilford multigrade head. While I'm not to familiar with the technical specs of the head, I believe it is considered a dichroic head, in that you dial in your contrast for multigrade paper using the electronic timer, and the head automatically adjusts the color. For the graded paper, I have been using the contrast grade two setting which appears pretty neutral.
By really slow, I mean that this paper is taking in excess of 4 stops more exposure to print a negative than is required for Forte Polygrade fiber.
Any ideas? Is this to be expected with this paper, or this paper/lamphouse combo?
Thanks everyone,
Mike

 

[Photo Engineer]

Graded paper can be as fast or as slow as the manufacturer makes it.

I have actually made both fast and slow graded enlarging papers.

If you have a slow graded paper, it was made that way.

PE

 

[mtnjunkie]

Thanks PE,
I guess I was just surprised at how much slower this paper was than anything else I've used. 3 min at f 8 for an 11x14 that prints in 30 seconds at f16 on another paper seemed like a huge leap. Normally that's indicative of me doing something wrong
Mike

 

[Jim Jones]

Try dialing out all filtering.

 

[Donald Miller]

While I can't speak to the characteristics of Forte Polyfiber, I do know that Nuance is two stops faster then Forte Polywarmtone.

Nuance seems to be on par with Kentmere VC and Seagull graded and VC.

I agree take out all filtration...there is no need of it...it only cuts the light transmission with graded paper

 

[mtnjunkie]

I thought that printing with the #2 setting on the enlarger was the equivalent of no filtration. Am I mistaken? Is anyone familiar with the Ilford Multigrade heads? My only control over the enlarging light color is the selection of the contrast filter number on the timer control, and printing without a filter on a traditional enlarger normally puts you at contrast 2, right?
Thanks again for the help,
Mike

 

[Donald Miller]

I thought that printing with the #2 setting on the enlarger was the equivalent of no filtration. Am I mistaken? Is anyone familiar with the Ilford Multigrade heads? My only control over the enlarging light color is the selection of the contrast filter number on the timer control, and printing without a filter on a traditional enlarger normally puts you at contrast 2, right?
Thanks again for the help,
Mike

That is a common misconception that some have. The grade of contrast is dependent on the type of light and hence the color of the light. For instance a conventional incandescent light bulb which is heavy in the yellow spectrum emission may well be a lower grade then grade two.

I don't know if the Ilford head has a filter bypass selector (My Saunders does). If it does then it would give you more light output to bypass all filtration when printing with graded paper.

One additional thing, graded photographic papers are usually notably more sensitive to the blue spectrum. So if you print with the lower filter numbers (yellow--minus blue or green) it will have the effect of requiring somewhat longer exposures.

 

[gainer]

In fact, if you are forced to use filtration, it will probably be best to make it as blue as the enlarger will allow. Color of the light has little or no effect on the contrast of graded paper, but certainly affects its apparent speed. A fairly bright yellow safe light that would fog VC paper is safe for use with most graded paper, so you can see that any yellow or red filtration in the enlarger light path would make exposures very long. Blue is also called minus yellow. I would think, though, that any enlarger designed to do both black and white and color would allow the filters to be taken out of the light path as has already been suggested, either by a switch or by setting all filter values to 0.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Graded paper = needs blue light

Graded paper is blue light sensitive. With filter #2 in place you likely will not get much blue light illuminating the paper.
Grade 2 filter on variable contrast paper will be pretty neutral. The filters, however, are not for graded paper.

- Thom

I thought that printing with the #2 setting on the enlarger was the equivalent of no filtration. Am I mistaken? Is anyone familiar with the Ilford Multigrade heads? My only control over the enlarging light color is the selection of the contrast filter number on the timer control, and printing without a filter on a traditional enlarger normally puts you at contrast 2, right?
Thanks again for the help,
Mike

 

[pnance]

I thought that printing with the #2 setting on the enlarger was the equivalent of no filtration. Am I mistaken?

Printing with #2 setting is only the contrast equivalent setting. Exposure is quite different.

Printing with no filtration is equal to grade 2 paper. Printing with any filtering will only slow down the exposure.

For instance, Ilford states the ISO speed of Multigrade IV is 500 with no filtration, 200 for 00 - 3 1/2 and 100 with 4 - 5.

 

[Photo Engineer]

All multigrade papers are blue and green sensitive, and contrast is controlled by using yellow and magenta filters alone or in combination.

Graded papers are either blue sensitive or blue and green sensitive, the faster papers generally being blue and green (ortho) sensitive. Filtration has no effect on contrast with these papers, but it does effect speed.

Every 0.3 increase in yellow filtration with a blue sensitive paper will decrease speed by one stop. If you have an ortho sensitive paper, the speed loss will be somewhere in between 1 stop and 1/2 stop.

Any increase in magenta filtration with a blue sensitive paper should have little effect on speed, but on an ortho sensitive paper will cause a speed loss of about 1/2 stop with 0.3 magenta filtration.

But, as I said above, a paper can be inherently slow or fast and if it is built that way, then there is nothing to be done about it.

PE