Giving up on Roller Processiong for 8x10

[wilsonneal]

I've had it with the Unicolor/Beseler paper tubes for processing 8x10 sheet film. I got some sheets that were perfect but too many marred by a scratch. I think the scratches come from removing the sheets from the tubes.

I tried tray processing single sheets last night, and although it's slower and it means wet fingers for 15 minutes, it gave me scratch-free negatives.

Now I need to figure out how to retouch these negs to hide these scratches.

I am still refining 8x10 technique and the other frustrating issue was reaching the edge of the image circle on several images.

Neal

 

[George Losse]

Neal,
I only used a Beseler tube for 11x14 about ten years ago, so I have limited experience with them. I can't say I liked the tubes.

For 8x10 I found the Jobo 3005 drum to be fantastic. I used it for five or six years on a Beseler motor base before buying a Jobo processor. Never had a problem getting film in or out of it. They are not the cheapest thing out there but I haven't found anything that works better for me.

My mind wonders way too far sitting that long in the dark trying to process film in trays.

 

[Nick Zentena]

I use Jobo print drums. 2830 or the bigger ones. Never a problem.

Are you getting the damage in the same area? Maybe check the drum for damage.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Neal-

I'll second what George said about the Jobo Expert drums. I have one for 4x5/5x7 and one for 8x10 (the 3005 and the 3010 drums I believe). Every single neg comes out perfectly unless I botch it before processing. You can use the Jobo drums on a manual roller base, with a Beseler motor base, or the CPA/CPP processors. If you can bite the bullet and get a Jobo processor, it is so worth it, because it keeps the drum bathed in a recirculating, temperature-controlled water bath. This also significantly impacts your processing consistency.

 

[resummerfield]

..... I think the scratches come from removing the sheets from the tubes......

Have you tried using nylon window screen between the film and the tube? Or consider using stainless steel hangers and tanks.

 

[DannL]

I use the Unicolor 8x10 drum. No scratches as of yet. The inside of the tube should be as smooth as a baby's bum. Check for knicks in the plastic. Insure you place the film in the tube with the emulsion side pointing away from the tube.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Another enthusiastic vote for a 3005 on a CPA/CPP-2. If you stick with trays, do wear nitrile gloves to keep your fingers dry!

 

[raucousimages]

My best 8X10 negs are tray processed. I use a stainless steel 11X14 tray with a small amount of developer as a one shot. then dump and fix.

No scratches, or surge marks.

 

[wilsonneal]

Thanks for the feedback friends. With the Jobo drums going for $300+ recently on eBay, I doubt I will spring for one of them. I have been reading and re-reading the various instructions for hand-shuffling film that are available on the 'net, and think I will try this next. If I had more room in my sink, I might set up a deep tank line, but space is at a premium.
Neal
(Hoping for just ONE neg from my Cape Cod trip worthy of PtPd).

 

[George Losse]

Forget ebay for this, just buy one from B&H or the view camera store. It will be the best $300 you ever spent for the 8x10.

With the price of film it won't be long before you end up wasting that much in scratched film if you haven't already.

 

[Ole]

$300+??? You must be thinking of the expert drums. Believe me, they are not necessary.

Here's an example of a normal price for print drums: http://cgi.ebay.com/Jobo-2840-2850-...9QQihZ006QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[wilsonneal]

Yes, and the regular drums are not working for me. Out of 10 sheet developed, 5 wound up with either long parallel scratches on the backside or a small scratch or two on the emulsion side.

George and several others are suggesting that the Expert drums will eliminate my whoas without the hassle of hand shuffling sheets.

I am on the fence.

I will re-examine my drums and try to be more careful.

Do people who use the Beseler/Unicolor drums wash their negs in the drums or pull them out and wash in trays?
N

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Neal - especially since you're A: not doing stand/semi-stand development for your 8x10, and B: you're processing in Pyro now (I assume, since you're alt-process printing) look for a solution that doesn't have you standing with your hands, gloved or otherwise, immersed in your chemistry for 30+ minutes all told. You know of course that the odds of developing an itch on your nose that needs scratching while developing film are directly related to how new your clothes are in an inverse square proportion.

 

[wilsonneal]

LOL. True, true.

I haven't gone Pyro yet. Kevin Sullivan at Bostick Sullivan persuaded me to keep souping in D76 since it's working for me at the moment. He thinks the benefits of Pyro are overstated. I don't know yet. Still on the fence.

I have made a neg that printed well in PtPd from HP5 in D76 1:1, so thinking I can do it again. Although more and more I am thinking that that negative was beginner's luck


N

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

well, come visit sometime and we can go out shooting, shoot some duplicate negs and you can tray process one set in D76, and run the other set in Pyro in my Jobo with the Expert drum, and see which you like better. I'll take you out and we'll do a day with the local APUG guys. Maybe I can even scare up a model to shoot some nudes in the landscape.

 

[Robert Hall]

I use several of the expert drums. If they made one for 1220, I would use it too.

I have had little luck with trying to do multiple negs in a tray that were larger than 4x5. Way too much film to scratch. If your negatives are worth keeping, get a system that works.

One last ditch effort is to get the plastic canvas people use for needlepoint. get a piece that is large enough to fit inside the tank. Find some plastic machine screws that you can put through the mesh to hold the negative in place, at least 2 on each side to fit the film. (use one of your not-so-lucky negatives for sizing.)

Insert the film on to the canvas and then into the tank, emulsion side towards the inside of the tank, of course. This should keep you from scratching your film.

Best of luck.

PS kudos go to PlatinumPrinter for the idea. (thanks John)

 

[Ole]

Do you empty the water out of the drum before removing the film?

I got a few scratches until I thought of removing the film with the drum full of water. That helped!

 

[DannL]

Did you ever consider that the scratches might be present "prior" to placing the film into the developing drum. Possibly caused from pulling them out of a film holder incorrectly? Just a thought.

You might be able to use a little home-spun forensic science and reveal the culprit for the scratches.

 

[wilsonneal]

Do you empty the water out of the drum before removing the film?

I got a few scratches until I thought of removing the film with the drum full of water. That helped!

Yes, I think there might be something to this idea. I think I've done it both ways and it's easier with a tank full o' water.


HOW ARE people washing their negs with the drums? Are they filling and dumping? Are they washing in trays? I also have a 11x14 archival print washer I could use? I think the scratches are somehow in the removing and/or washing phase.
Thanks
neal

 

[wilsonneal]

well, come visit sometime and we can go out shooting, shoot some duplicate negs and you can tray process one set in D76, and run the other set in Pyro in my Jobo with the Expert drum, and see which you like better. I'll take you out and we'll do a day with the local APUG guys. Maybe I can even scare up a model to shoot some nudes in the landscape.

That sounds like a fun day. We'll have to try to plan that this Fall/Winter.
Neal

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Yes, I think there might be something to this idea. I think I've done it both ways and it's easier with a tank full o' water.


HOW ARE people washing their negs with the drums? Are they filling and dumping? Are they washing in trays? I also have a 11x14 archival print washer I could use? I think the scratches are somehow in the removing and/or washing phase.
Thanks
neal

I'm washing in the drum. I give the drum a fill, let it run for one minute, dump, second fill, two minutes, dump, third fill, three minutes, dump. Then on to the Foto Flo. I don't touch the negs again from when they're loaded into the drum until I'm ready to hang them on the drying clips.

 

[colrehogan]

I wash inside the drum too.

 

[wilsonneal]

Got two scratch free negs tonight by following advice on this thread. I didn't remove the negs until they were Photo-Flo'd, and I removed them from a 'full' tank. They look good.
Thanks for the advice.
What do you folks fill the odd pinhole with?
thanks
Neal