Getting better at slide exposure?

[Sirius Glass]

The movie "Matrix" had so many holes in the plot that sieves hold more water.

 

[Chan Tran]

Yes, it is described in the manual. Just RTFM.

Tell me how it works with this description in the manual please

"This system is ideal for quick operation in any exposure mode.
With D- or G-type AF Nikkor lenses including AF-I or AF-S
Nikkor, 3D Color Matrix Metering is automatically activated. 3D
Color Matrix Metering uses various types of data: scene brightness,
scene contrast, focused subject’s distance (Distance
Information) and color distribution of the entire frame. Data on
scene brightness, contrast and color distribution are detected
by the camera’s 1,005-pixel Matrix Sensor, while data on the
focused subject’s distance is detected and relayed by your Dor
G-type AF Nikkor lens. Information sent by the camera’s
autofocus system indicating whether the main subject is
centered is also considered in the computation. By analyzing
these data, the F5’s built-in microcomputer is able to provide
correct exposure even in extremely complex lighting situations.
If a non-D/G-type lens is used, Matrix Metering is performed.
Although lens’ Distance Information is not given, 1,005-pixel
Matrix Sensor provides the correct exposure in most lighting
situations.
Note that Matrix Metering system can only be used with lenses
having a built-in CPU (such as AF Nikkor and AI-P lenses.)"

 

[markbarendt]

Tell me how it works with this description in the manual please

"This system is ideal for quick operation in any exposure mode.
With D- or G-type AF Nikkor lenses including AF-I or AF-S
Nikkor, 3D Color Matrix Metering is automatically activated. 3D
Color Matrix Metering uses various types of data: scene brightness,
scene contrast, focused subject’s distance (Distance
Information) and color distribution of the entire frame. Data on
scene brightness, contrast and color distribution are detected
by the camera’s 1,005-pixel Matrix Sensor, while data on the
focused subject’s distance is detected and relayed by your Dor
G-type AF Nikkor lens. Information sent by the camera’s
autofocus system indicating whether the main subject is
centered is also considered in the computation. By analyzing
these data, the F5’s built-in microcomputer is able to provide
correct exposure even in extremely complex lighting situations.
If a non-D/G-type lens is used, Matrix Metering is performed.
Although lens’ Distance Information is not given, 1,005-pixel
Matrix Sensor provides the correct exposure in most lighting
situations.
Note that Matrix Metering system can only be used with lenses
having a built-in CPU (such as AF Nikkor and AI-P lenses.)"

OK.

Attach a lens that's under 30 years old.

Turn on camera.

Point and shoot.

 

[Chan Tran]

OK.

Attach a lens that's under 30 years old.

Turn on camera.

Point and shoot.

That's exactly when it sucks if you happened to have negative film in your camera. If you have slide film it would come out good.

 

[markbarendt]

That's exactly when it sucks if you happened to have negative film in your camera. If you have slide film it would come out good.

Not true Chan, exposure appropriate for a positive intrinsically works fine for both negatives and positives.

That's not an original thought on my part, Dunn and Wakefield is where I got that, in their Exposure Manual. I do believe it though.

What differs is the expectations between the two types of film, not the ability to get a comparable final positive result.

 

[tomfrh]

That's exactly when it sucks if you happened to have negative film in your camera. If you have slide film it would come out good.

I use canon cameras with evaluative metering (similar thing to matrix metering) and they manage fine with both neg film and slide film

 

[Sirius Glass]

Tell me how it works with this description in the manual please

"This system is ideal for quick operation in any exposure mode.
With D- or G-type AF Nikkor lenses including AF-I or AF-S
Nikkor, 3D Color Matrix Metering is automatically activated. 3D
Color Matrix Metering uses various types of data: scene brightness,
scene contrast, focused subject’s distance (Distance
Information) and color distribution of the entire frame. Data on
scene brightness, contrast and color distribution are detected
by the camera’s 1,005-pixel Matrix Sensor, while data on the
focused subject’s distance is detected and relayed by your Dor
G-type AF Nikkor lens. Information sent by the camera’s
autofocus system indicating whether the main subject is
centered is also considered in the computation. By analyzing
these data, the F5’s built-in microcomputer is able to provide
correct exposure even in extremely complex lighting situations.
If a non-D/G-type lens is used, Matrix Metering is performed.
Although lens’ Distance Information is not given, 1,005-pixel
Matrix Sensor provides the correct exposure in most lighting
situations.
Note that Matrix Metering system can only be used with lenses
having a built-in CPU (such as AF Nikkor and AI-P lenses.)"

"1,005-pixel Matrix Sensor" is a digital camera not a real camera. Real cameras do not have pixels. Real cameras such as those built by Nikon and Canon have less than 20 sensors. For the equipment you are RTFM the website rules and then post your questions on DPUG.

 

[tomfrh]

"1,005-pixel Matrix Sensor" is a digital camera not a real camera. Real cameras do not have pixels. Real cameras such as those built by Nikon and Canon have less than 20 sensors.

The later model Nikon SLRs have these tricky colour meters.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/NikonF5/metering/

 

[Chan Tran]

"1,005-pixel Matrix Sensor" is a digital camera not a real camera. Real cameras do not have pixels. Real cameras such as those built by Nikon and Canon have less than 20 sensors. For the equipment you are RTFM the website rules and then post your questions on DPUG.

Sir! I quoted the manual of my Nikon F5 which the last I checked does take the 35mm film cassette and if you don't know exactly how it works you wouldn't know when it doesn't work correctly.
With my experience using it as is it works very poorly for color negative film but very good for color slide film. Telling me RTFM is an insult because I read all the manuals I got with my equipment I own plus the manual of equipment I am interested in but do not own.

 

[tomfrh]

With my experience using it as is it works very poorly for color negative film but very good for color slide film

What specifically do you mean by it works poorly with neg film?

 

[Craig75]

"1,005-pixel Matrix Sensor" is a digital camera not a real camera. Real cameras do not have pixels. Real cameras such as those built by Nikon and Canon have less than 20 sensors. For the equipment you are RTFM the website rules and then post your questions on DPUG.

Why not speak to him politely? You clearly dont know the Nikon F5 nor how its metering works - so maybe chill on being rude to him

 

[Chan Tran]

What specifically do you mean by it works poorly with neg film?

For a narrow dynamic range scene it works fine. For example if you fill the frame with the gray card it would give perfect exposure for the gray card. For scenes with wide dynamic range I found that the matrix meter tends to favor the highlight which has the effect of underexpose the shadows. For slides this is fine but for negative this is a bad thing. Since I don't know exactly how the matrix meter works it's very difficult to estimate the degree of underexposure to compensate for.

 

[markbarendt]

For a narrow dynamic range scene it works fine. For example if you fill the frame with the gray card it would give perfect exposure for the gray card. For scenes with wide dynamic range I found that the matrix meter tends to favor the highlight which has the effect of underexpose the shadows.

And there is the info needed to 'fix' matrix metering for you Chan.

When using negs set exposure compensation to give yourself an extra stop or so of exposure on the film, then just point and shoot.

 

[destroya]

And there is the info needed to 'fix' matrix metering for you Chan.

When using negs set exposure compensation to give yourself an extra stop or so of exposure on the film, then just point and shoot.

Exactly. there is nothing wrong with the meter. it does exactly what it was designed to do. you just need to understand how it works, for you, with neg film and adjust accordingly. just because you dont understand how it works, or are not familiar or comfortable using it with neg film, does not mean its broken or sucks.

 

[cliveh]

I can't believe no one has suggested an incident light meter yet. In most situations, an incident meter will give a perfect exposure no matter how light or dark the subject is.

+1 for slide film and to make the incident reading you are in the same light as the subject.

 

[Sirius Glass]

For a narrow dynamic range scene it works fine. For example if you fill the frame with the gray card it would give perfect exposure for the gray card. For scenes with wide dynamic range I found that the matrix meter tends to favor the highlight which has the effect of underexpose the shadows. For slides this is fine but for negative this is a bad thing. Since I don't know exactly how the matrix meter works it's very difficult to estimate the degree of underexposure to compensate for.

You can solve your problem by not metering the sky. Meter the subject to not include the sky and you will not need to use a gray card.

 

[markbarendt]

For a narrow dynamic range scene it works fine. For example if you fill the frame with the gray card it would give perfect exposure for the gray card. For scenes with wide dynamic range I found that the matrix meter tends to favor the highlight which has the effect of underexpose the shadows. For slides this is fine but for negative this is a bad thing. Since I don't know exactly how the matrix meter works it's very difficult to estimate the degree of underexposure to compensate for.

Actually you can't know exactly.

You can solve your problem by not metering the sky. Meter the subject to not include the sky and you will not need to use a gray card.

While with experience this can work I have not found this reliable.

What I'm getting at here is that the software makes lots of educated guesses to come up with an exposure, and it's not linear. Without knowing all the programming we can't out guess it. Well lets say its a bit like out guessing your significant other; you may have a good guess about the decisions they might make, but they will regularly prove you wrong.

Matrix is a mode one uses when one wants to let the camera, your significant other whom is quite trustworthy, make the decisions and you are willing to live with those decisions. You still have general input, exposure compensation, but the specifics are given to the camera.

 

[Chan Tran]

You can solve your problem by not metering the sky. Meter the subject to not include the sky and you will not need to use a gray card.

I can solve the problem by not using the matrix metering when I use negative film. I can either use center weighted or spot or a hand held or even no meter at all. I used a meterless camera for years and having no problem until I got the F5 in 2002 and was curious about the matrix metering I tried it and it didn't work for me with negative film so after 2 years of trying I stopped using it. However, for the slides they came out great. Sometimes they didn't come out the way I expected but good in a different way. If I use spot metering for slides they came out the way I expected but using the matrix many times it produced surprisingly good results. So to the OP I strong recommend using matrix meter for slide as I assume his F100 meter is about the same as my F5 meter.

 

[markbarendt]

I can solve the problem by not using the matrix metering when I use negative film. I can either use center weighted or spot or a hand held or even no meter at all. I used a meterless camera for years and having no problem until I got the F5 in 2002 and was curious about the matrix metering I tried it and it didn't work for me with negative film so after 2 years of trying I stopped using it. However, for the slides they came out great. Sometimes they didn't come out the way I expected but good in a different way. If I use spot metering for slides they came out the way I expected but using the matrix many times it produced surprisingly good results. So to the OP I strong recommend using matrix meter for slide as I assume his F100 meter is about the same as my F5 meter.

With matrix and an extra stop dialed in I have never had a failed exposure on negative film. They were all well within printable ranges.

In general, like you, I meter differently though because I've got other things factored in. For example I regularly want shots from a given situation to all have a common exposure level, that keeps sets of photos looking like they belong together.

 

[destroya]

I can solve the problem by not using the matrix metering when I use negative film. I can either use center weighted or spot or a hand held or even no meter at all......

thats exactly what i do. Matrix for slide film, center weighted for neg film.

 

[tomfrh]

In my experience canons evaluative metering works well for slide film and black and white film. I don't tend to use colour neg but it's worked in the few times I've used it.

When I really want specific exposure I use spot. I find it's like driving a manual - if you really want control and don't want a black box making decisions for you then there is no substitute for direct control.