Foma Paper & Bleach/Re-dev in Lith

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by patricia de roeck, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. patricia de roeck

    patricia de roeck Member

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    Finally got around to doing some experiments with this paper and process and I know a few of you were interested in the results, so here goes.
    Used Foma 12 x 16 MG Classic Glossy. 131 warmtone paper - made a master print with normal exposures - this is a very slow paper by the way, ended up with 60 secs at Gr.2.5 at F5.6.
    Made 4 prints @ 1/2 stop overexposed - 3 prints in Ilfd. warmtone dev. and 1 print in Ilfd. Multigrade dev.
    Made 4 prints @ 3/4 stop overexposed - 2 prints in Ilfd warmtone dev. and 2 prints in Ilfd Mulitgrade Dev.
    <Made 4 prints @ 1 stop overexposed - 2 prints in Ild warmtone Dev. and 2 prints in Ilfd. Multigrade dev.
    Used Maco Lith - 100ml of A, 100ml of B, 250 ml Old Brown and 2.5 litres water @ 25 deg. (Tim Rudman's receipe)
    It was quite easy to identify which prints had been developed in warm or neutral/cold developer but at the end of the bleach/lith session when the prints were dried there was no greater warmth in the warmtone developed prints than the others in the colder tone developer. The first 5 to 6 prints were horrible, very mottled and streaky but the final 6 were terriffic- just the look I was after, the mid tones were very graphic, th4e blacks really solid, while the lighter to highlight areas were a light creamy/peach colour. So at the end of the session I had 5 prints that are sellable, not bad odds for a lith session!
    I'm sorry that I can't show these prints to you but I only ever use 12 x 16 paper and its too big to fit my scanner, plus I haven't a clue how to do it anyway. Actually I much prefer the look of these prints than the ones I used with Forte warmtone paper so its a win-win for me - unless of course the Foma is taken off the market - then its back to the drawing board I guess.
    Hope this info helps anyone else who enjoys creating Lith prints this way.
    Patricia.
     
  2. Lyn Arnold

    Lyn Arnold Subscriber

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    Thanks Patricia, you have been busy! I have some Fomatone MG classic 132, but have only tried it in Ansco 81 without the bleach step. It was OK, but a bit too pink for me. I'm really after an effect I used to get with Sterling RC paper (not lith paper) and Kodalith developer: gritty blacks and creamy highlights. I shall try your suggestions with bleach/lith using Maco developer.
    Lyn
     
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    patricia de roeck

    patricia de roeck Member

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    Lyn, looks like you're after a similar effect so this combination of Foma 131 and maco Lith (plus the bleach of course) might be the answer - the final 5 or 6 prints gave this look - the first half dozen are usually sacrificed in this process - not cheap but I'm getting much better results with this process than straight to lith - I ended up sacificing 20 sheets when I did that!! I'd like to try a cold toned Foma, which I guess is the 132 (or is that a matt paper) that you mentioned - just to see if I end up with really graphic and gritty prints with hardly any background colour. Anyway, wish you were geographically closer so you could see the prints for yourself, even scanning them I think a lot gets lost in translation. Good luck with it.
    Patricia
     
  4. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    I've only done a little bleach and redevelopment. Do you normally want to overexpose the the normally developed prints? Is the bleach just a potasium bromide/ferri bleach? Which level of over exposure worked best? Inquiring minds want to know :smile:

    Lyn - if you are after gritty cold (almost blue) blacks and creamy highlights, try some Kentmere Warmtone VC Semi matte in Rollei/Maco. Great paper for the right image.
     
  5. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

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    I don't see the point to do this on Foma because this paper really lith well. I would keep that to paper that don't lith.
    Unless the result is really different and striking...
    Can we see ?
    :smile:
    Even a digisnap will do
     
  6. Lyn Arnold

    Lyn Arnold Subscriber

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    Thanks Mark. We have difficulty obtaining Kentmere warm tone paper here; the slightly cold-tone VC fineprint only is stocked. At a hefty shipping price I got a box of 100 Fomabrom velvet variant IV from Freestyle, mainly for bromoils so will try that in lith.

    Yes Patricia, the Fomatone MG classic 132 is matte.

    Lyn
     
  7. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    .....and the regular VC fineprint is definitely not the same ):
     
  8. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Subscriber

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    Agreed-the warmtone will lith -the neutral tone won't.
    But I hear they are reformulating the Warmtone
    The paper I like for redevelopment is Ilford MGWT
    Mark
     
  9. blaze-on

    blaze-on Member

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    I'm curious as to which overexposure worked best on this paper..1/2 stop; 3/4 stop overexposed;1 stop overexposed

    Thanks for posting.
     
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    patricia de roeck

    patricia de roeck Member

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    Sorry for the delay in responding but I've been off-line for a week. Yes Mark because of the bleach process the prints must be overexposed - I'm still trying to refine this process so I think my next experiment will be to overexpose 10 prints, all at the same percentage instead of a step system,i.e,. all prints at 3/4 stop - no doubt the first few prints will be useless but it will be interesting to see how many of the remainder are 'keepers' as compared to the step system. I'm pretty sure that due to the infectious development of the lith, the first few prints will always be throw-aways regardless of the rate of overexposure but I've been working with the same negative for a year and the best results have always been at 3/4 and 1 stop overexp. regardless of brand of paper or lith developer. In answer to Guillaume's musings - I've given straight lith a try with no success whatever but I really enjoy using this process as I actually get results - a big plus being the fact that its done with the light on so I have more control on the snatch points, both in the bleach and then in the lith dev. an example of the times used are 1min 15 sec. in the bleach and 2 mins in the lith dev. The only downside I can see is the fact that any sloppyness or short-cuts taken in developing the prints to archival status will be glaringly obvious by the time the prints are pulled from the lith dev. - its very unforgiving in that regard.
    Patricia