Flah

[DavidS]

I've been contemplating using a flash entrance and option for my website. How many photographers use flash or any form of advanced website presentation for their sites? Does anyone know how having a flash entrance will effect spiderbots?

 

[medform-norm]

I've been contemplating using a flash entrance and option for my website. How many photographers use flash or any form of advanced website presentation for their sites? Does anyone know how having a flash entrance will effect spiderbots?

Oh please, no Flash! I'm very allergic to websites with Flash - they slow things down and nowadays, the impatient webber will kill anything that takes too long to load. There must be other solutions to what you want to do, no?

 

[Dave Parker]

Inked,

I know that flash seems appealing, but we have found out in our web business, which we are now hosting over 500 websites, that the ones we designed with flash are the least visited websites, their traffic numbers run about 35% less than any other website we have designed or host, the problem seems to be the loading times and the various versions of flash floating around, flash is a media type that was actually designed to run off of CD then ported to the web and unfortunately over 50% of the current internet users are still on some type of dial up account, which does not handle the big downloads very easy, in addition if they have to update a version of flash, then you have added to their download times, spiders do not normally index flash sites.

Just my observations from the various companies we have designed websites for.

Dave Parker

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If I see Flash loading, I usually click out.

 

[jjstafford]

I use a lot of flash, but _only_ for illustrations that require it. Generally, it's just a pain on an opening page. While Macromedia (now Adobe, Inc.) will tell you that Flash is the most common plug-in in the world, and some huge number of people have it, it does not mean they LIKE it.

You can do a lot with javascript that might be easier with Flash; my humble opinion: spend the effort to script rather than Flash, and keep it simple.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Even Javascript is unnecessary more often than not and just makes things crashy.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I use mainly explorer on my computer , as well I have safari, when I go to a website with flash on explorer for some reason I lock up on the front page, if I really want to see the site I will switch to safari and it will work.
9 times out of 10 I will just forget the site and move one and I would imagine this happens frequently.

 

[Dave Parker]

My wife and I have developed the idea in designing websites that easier the better, if you make it difficult at all for your visitors to enter or view your website, then the possibility is that they will go else where to gather their information, on the internet, the KISS princeable seems to work the best..

Dave

 

[jjstafford]

Even Javascript is unnecessary more often than not and just makes things crashy.

Your comment is important, David, so forgive if I pry a bit. I've never experienced a crash with Javascript on my WindoZe XP/Pro nor the Mac G5 under OSX, and the largest single constituency I work for (a university with over 7,000 PCs and perhaps 250 Macs) has no problem with my javascript. However, an outside client (a magazine) which uses Macintoshes, mostly V9 and OSX does experience stopped clients. The magazine has a rather, ah, 'creative' systems person and they experience far more problems than just web browser crashes. But it raises the question I cannot anticipate: how many other Mac people are similarly creative/mismanaged, odd, or is it truly a problem even on well managed Macs (other than the university Macs which do not have problems.)

Now Java is a different case and I just will not use it.

 

[Dave Parker]

Not David, but will put some information forth here about the windows side of this, XP does in fact handle java script quite a bit better than the previous versions(I still am on 98 with this machine) one of the problems with Javascript in the past was it would seize memory for its calls, and of course the older versions of windows, the memory management was poor to say the least, I don't have alot of experiance with Mac's but I know the one that I do have seems to have memory management problems simular to the Windows machine I am currently on..

Dave

 

[jjstafford]

Thanks for that, Dave. I need to be reminded that the world constituency is not at all like my largest client. KISS never fails.

 

[lee]

what the hell is Flah? Is that some sort of bread? What is it?

lee\c

 

[jjstafford]

what the hell is Flah? Is that some sort of bread? What is it?

lee\c

It' ome ort of omiion in the pelling.

 

[Andy K]

If a site is slow loading I click out within ten seconds.

As for java script, it may not be the same thing as you guys are talking about, as I know very little about computers, but I recently installed something called a Java Runtime Environment 2 (I think) on my computer (P4 2.66Ghz running windows XP) and it caused all sorts of problems, I even had two 'blue screens'. I uninstalled it.

 

[Dave Parker]

If a site is slow loading I click out within ten seconds.

As for java script, it may not be the same thing as you guys are talking about, as I know very little about computers, but I recently installed something called a Java Runtime Environment 2 (I think) on my computer (P4 2.66Ghz running windows XP) and it caused all sorts of problems, I even had two 'blue screens'. I uninstalled it.

Hi Andy,

Java script and Java are two different things, javascript has a tendancy to be browser dependant and the java runtime enviorment is actually a programming language interperter, so it can cause probelms if it runs into conflicts on your computer and cause the blue screen of death, were is, most of the time the worst thing a javascript will do, is lock up or shut down a browser.

Dave

 

[Paul Sorensen]

Not to pile on, but I agree that a Flash intro page is a bad idea. For example, I despise going to freestyle photo if I have to go through their maze to get to the actual site. I have bookmarked the inside page where you can actually start looking for things, but the intro page is very irritating and worthless in my eyes.

The same goes for static graphic intro pages. That was all the rage before Flash hit the scene, but it is no better than Flash, except in the cases where the files are smaller. Anything that gets in the way of the content loses you visitors.

Paul.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I gotta say that for me the biggest turnoff to a web site is when I see Java applets or Flash on the _main_ page. Those technologies can be really useful to create on-line apps and cool demos (not to mention stupid cartoons), but they must NEVER be shoved down the user's throat. Especially with a photo site, it's even worse because you start adding up Flash+Hi-rez photos and even on broadband it's a PITA.

For me, an all-Flash site is always synonymous with a plasticky, bubble-gum disposable site--movie sites, for e.g.

I suggest you get a good CSS design (one that is tweaked enough to work in ALL the browsers, not just IE), and XHTML for lightweight markup.

And lastly, don't overuse tables and buttons. There is enough flexibility in XHTML markup to avoid doing horrors like TV channels sites.

A good source of sexy, lightweight, standards-compliant Web coding help is http://www.alistapart.com/

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Javascript problems I've had lately have mostly been on my office machine running Win98se, but occasionally on my laptop running on XP Pro.

The site I use for academic purposes is still readable in Lynx, but it's pretty much text oriented. I don't even have frames in that one.

 

[Andy K]

Hi Andy,

Java script and Java are two different things, javascript has a tendancy to be browser dependant and the java runtime enviorment is actually a programming language interperter, so it can cause probelms if it runs into conflicts on your computer and cause the blue screen of death, were is, most of the time the worst thing a javascript will do, is lock up or shut down a browser.

Dave

Thanks for the heads up Dave. I seem to be managing fine without the Java Runtime prog. The only reason I installed it was Firefox couldn't open some items on pages without it, for example chat windows on forums.

 

[Bob F.]

I've been contemplating using a flash entrance and option for my website. How many photographers use flash or any form of advanced website presentation for their sites? Does anyone know how having a flash entrance will effect spiderbots?

Why?

Why make people wait 10-20 seconds in order to just click on "Continue to site" - I HATE, loath and despise "Intro" splash screens on the front of web sites, Flash or otherwise, (Flash just means I have to wait longer to click in to the actual site). It's a waste of my time. What is the point of it other than: "look how clever we are, we have paid someone xxx to make this site harder to use"... Annoying and pointless.

Do yourself a favour: resist the temptation: it's the triumph of fluff over practicality.

Bob.

 

[hortense]

MY GOD! ... all you computer literate guys showing off!

 

[DavidS]

Wow...so many responses. I'm thinking about doing a quick flash intro (a few seconds long at the most) and offering an HTML and flash version. I have a web designer who's interested in working with me. Her portfolio is Dead Link Removed

(i think you can just click that)

I don't want to lose customers who have dial-up, which is why I'd offer an HTML version in the current state the website is in.

I'm also thinking about putting music on the site...something jazzy. Not poppy, not classical...jazz. Everyone loves Jazz, right?

 

[Andy K]

Sorry Inked, but I have to say one of THE most irritating things to come across on the net is a website with music! That's an instant exit sign for me!

 

[argus]

From the moment your flash-thingie features a skip link, it's worthless... even though it may well be appealing. Don't use it in that way.
Don't do Java, I hate it for being so slow. (I really hate please wait and loading stuff). Hereby I apologyse for using flash in my own B/W-picture site.

Javascript is a nice solution as long as it is browser/platform portable.

Not only KISS is a very good practice, but also degrading gracefully is a good standard to adhere to.
Get nice and interesting usefull features for the latest browsers, but don't forget there are still users browsing the web with IE4, NS3 or worse (read: older)

G

 

[geraldatwork]

I have a cable hookup so I like flash but can see where people on slower modems would just go away. When I visit a site which happens to be running slow I just go away. As been shown I'm not the most patient person around. Dave seems to have experience here and you don't want to lose half your visitors. I might shy away from flash for now or I would at least make it real quick loading or offer visitors a choice before going deeper in to the site.