Film Washing Test

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Greg Davis, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

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    OK Ian, but what I was pointing out was pertinent only to earlier exchanges between myself and pentaxuser.

    The purpose of adding to this thread was neither in support of, or in any attempt to refute, anything that has been said elsewhere about washing.

    It's just to tell pentaxuser "here is where I found it".
     
  2. iandvaag

    iandvaag Subscriber

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    Of course. I just thought I would post so that others who some along and read this thread without reading the document don't mistake the washing advice therein for something that it isn't. Sorry if I just confounded the point.

    Best,
    Ian
     
  3. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    Well done and thanks for sharing the results!
     
  4. derek andrews

    derek andrews Member

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    Thanks that was really informative. I've just developed my first roll of kentmere in Rodinal, after 35 years. I used to wash my film in running water through a rubber hose fixed to a hot/cold mixer tap. Oh, the luxury! Now I've just used a change and dump method bearing in mind we're on metered water and with conserving water on our minds.

    I was wondering if I'd washed enough. Is it possible to dip test the final wash to ensure all fixer is gone?
     
  5. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    I use the following device. It consists of a plastic cylindrical food container. I drilled six very small holes in the bottom. It is important that the holes be small so that it takes approximately 1 minute for the full container to drain. The container holds four 35mm reels. Place the container and reels under the faucet. Adjust the water flow so that the cylinder remains filled without overflowing. Allow the water to run for 30 minutes. The result perfectly washed film every time.
     
  6. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    30 minutes?!
     
  7. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    great test; thanks for the effort and for sharing the results; looks all reasonable to me.
     
  8. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    I would expect this to work very well.
     
  9. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    That matches Kodak's recommendations, if:
    1) no wash aid is used; and
    2) the flow is so sufficiently slow as to only change the water once every 5 minutes.
    Assuming Gerald's container is about 1 litre, that means about 6 litres of water to wash 4 films.
     
  10. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    Is Kodak's recommendation in terms of time or volume? Six liters of water to wash four films doesn't sound unreasonable. But six liters over 30 minutes equates to 200ml per minute. This is water dripping from a faucet, not running.
     
  11. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    The recommendation is expressed as follows: ". Run the wash water at least fast enough to provide a complete change of water in the tank in 5 minutes."
    You may, of course, have a tank that doesn't exchange water particularly efficiently. That would necessitate more flow. As would a larger tank.
    When it comes to washing film, soak time is really important, because fixer doesn't wash out of the emulsion, it diffuses out of the emulsion.
    An efficient trickle is what you want.
     
  12. Craig75

    Craig75 Member

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    Ingenious!
     
  13. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    I must be misreading the photos the OP posted because it looks to me as if all the alternatives washed the film effectively. What am I missing?
     
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    Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    There are some pieces of film that very clearly show a dark stain where the test solution was placed. The stain should match square 1 to be considered archivally clean, but square 2 is ok. The methods that left a stain matching squares 3 or 4, of which a small number of test strips do, then they are not clean enough for long term keeping. These strips also exhibit a stronger purple base and should be easy to identify in the original post.

    Simply speaking, film that uses a hardening fixer without a hypo clearing agent must use a much longer wash time than others. The dark stained film used a wash method meant for a non-hardening fixers, but a hardening fixer was used instead, or I used a wash method that was based on use of a hypo clearing agent when none was actually used.
     
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