Film curls... help!

tkamiya · May 8, 2010

I am having BIG issues with film curling. I live in Central Florida and the relative humidity inside my house is somewhere between 40 and 50% and temp is about 80 to 85 degrees F.

Using Tmax 100 and 400, 120 format film never curls. They always dry flat. However, 135 format film curls very badly. Pressing in between pages of heavy books won't flatten them.

Talking nicely or threatening to "straighten up!" didn't work either Are there any secret anyone would like to share?

This is a problem because trying to place precisely in film carrier (for an enlarger) becomes challenge, and scanning (for purpose of reviewing film) causes Newton rings.

Help!

Q.G. · May 8, 2010

Increase the relative humidity in your house a bit.

Athiril · May 8, 2010

Take your curly film, take 2 slides of glass big enough to cover it (like portrait frame glass), rinse them in photoflo (diluted of course as normal) including the film, put the film between the glass, place in a bath of -tap- hot water (not boiled hot that is too hot) for 60 seconds, remove, open glass, film is now flat, dry it somewhere.

tkamiya · May 8, 2010

Greg Davis said:
How are you drying the film? I teach photography in Miami and when the students dry the film quickly in a film dryer that keeps the film coiled on the reels, it will never straighten. Those that hang it up to dry with a clothespin on the bottom never have a problem.

I hang them by ends with a weight at the bottom. This is done at room temperature in shower stall. Pretty much a standard method, I think.

Rick A · May 8, 2010

I've found that it mostly depends on the brand of film more than anything. Most of the European films curl, but flatten out when stored under some weight. Right now I have some Adox 25 Ortho 120 that I cannot get to flatten out for love nor money. I air dry all my film by hanging with weight on the end.

nickandre · May 8, 2010

you have to sleeve it quickly after it's fully dried and put it under a dictionary. If you wait long the curl sets in.

Existing Light · May 8, 2010

tkamiya said:
Using Tmax 100 and 400, 120 format film never curls. They always dry flat. However, 135 format film curls very badly. Pressing in between pages of heavy books won't flatten them.

maybe it's a sign that you need to shoot 120 film only

Konical · May 8, 2010

Good Afternoon, tkamiya,

After the film is completely dry, put it back on the reel reversed (emulsion side out); give it a day or two and much of the curl problem will be eliminated. I routinely use that technique with Foma 120 film which is annoyingly curl-prone. Incidentally, I also frequently use both T-Max films in LF, MF, and 35mm. During the heating season, at least half of the year here in the St. Louis area, my film dries in rather low-humidity conditions; with those films I never experience any significant curling problems. I can't explain why your situation is different.

Konical

mwdake · May 8, 2010

I reverse roll my curly films, mainly Foma.
I either reverse roll the entire roll and pin it carefully with a wooden clothes peg.
Sometimes I sleeve it in a Print File page then reverse roll the page and put a rubber band around it.

Either way I leave it like that for about a week and it does wonders to help remove the curl.

Ektagraphic · May 8, 2010

I sencond the idea of a weight. Even a few binder clips may do.

PhotoBob · Jun 1, 2010

I was just thinking of asking the same question.
My Acros is beatiful and no problem, but Efke, really likes to curl for some reason.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 1, 2010

I have the same irritating problem with Tmax 400 in the 35mm format. It doesn't matter if I dry the film in the winter, when humidity is somewhere around 10-15%, or in the summer when it can be as high as 80-85%. It's curly.
I'll try the film spool technique, however it's only temporary until I can purchase more stainless steel 35mm reels.

I look forward to having a solution for this.

Kevin Kehler · Jun 1, 2010

I have found that putting 2 weights on the bottom (I use plastic clothes pins) with one on each corner to help. If I just put one heavy one in the center, the edges curl more.

rippo · Jun 12, 2010

Bumping the thread here because I'm thinking of getting back into developing own film after a couple of years having my lab do it. One of my major issues was the problem of 35mm film curl. Is everyone talking about curl lengthwise, or edge to edge? The tips for weighting etc sound like lengthwise curl solutions. I would get edge curl that was so bad, the film would "bottom out" on the glass of my 4990 scanner. Whereas from the lab, it's always as flat as a (insert your favorite flat food here: pancake, fritter, etc). Newton rings, even distorted images would result from the curl. I hang my film in one of those plastic drying things, like a long clear plastic cylinder with an opening underneath. The name of which escapes me.

I was wondering, could the stainless steel reels be a problem? I have to curl the film as it goes in. Would one of those plastic self-feeding tanks make for flatter negatives? Sounds like I'm doing all the other things people suggest in this thread.

Ronald Moravec · Jun 12, 2010

reverse curl it like Konical says, except I do not do it on a reel. Care not to scratch with pointed ends. I tape the ends and hold in the reverse for two days.

Cut and place in plastic sleve which you weight down.

I also find time works well also.

alexmacphee · Jun 12, 2010

I respool after development with the emulsion side out and leave it a day or two. I use Hewes spirals, and sometimes, to get the film end back under the little spring, I use scissors to trim the trailing end to a shallow '>' shape.

Q.G. · Jun 12, 2010

I find that curl and humidity go hand in hand. Too dry, and you'll have curl. (Remember slides popping when being projected).
So perhaps you're drying film too much, storing film too dry?

Adjust humidity and the film will lie flat again (until it dries out again).
I breath on film to make it go flat before putting it in a carrier, and it works great.

RTMoynihan · Jun 12, 2010

I have two clip type things that I use to dry my film. They have a hook on one end and two points that 'bite' through the film and hold it in place, I find if I place one at either end and hang in the shower room they come out dead straight. I also run the shower for a few minutes before hanging up as it gets rid of dust in the area around the negs and increases humidity. Once they're dried I cut and store them in acid free paper binder leaves to keep them flat and safe.
Hope this helps.

PhotoJim · Jun 12, 2010

My secrets:

1. Use the Paterson clips. Put the heavy one at the bottom. This pulls the film tauter during drying.
2. Patience. Put the negatives into sleeves and file them in a binder. If the binder is reasonably full, the negatives will flatten out naturally over a few months. Really thin films like Lucky and Shanghai might take a couple of years but they still flatten.

We have low humidity here and that is the enemy of film drying (surprisingly) but other than the Chinese and eastern European films, I never have a problem with curling.

Alan Johnson · Jun 12, 2010

My experience has been that 35mm Delta 100 and FP4+ dry with less curl across the width than 100 T-max but I would like to see a few more reports before claiming this to be always true.

rippo · Jun 12, 2010

Ok I'll have to try to reverse-curl it. My lab delivers the film in long protective sleeves for an uncut roll. I wonder if reverse-curling it in one of those would work after I've dried it? I will also give the humidity thing a shot. I live in Southern California, where we've successfully legislated against humidity in all its evil forms. I've got a film drying bag and will either move it to the shower area, or just run the tea kettle in the small bathroom I currently use for dev/drying.

PhotoJim: sorry, patience isn't an option for me. I usually scan within a day or two of processing. If my lab can deliver flat film immediately, I ought to be able to as well!

rippo · Jun 16, 2010

So the good news is that my first film development in several years went pretty smoothly. Funny the things your hands remember to do. Forgot to shake the film out at the end, got some water spots but no matter, they were test rolls. I hung the two rolls of Arista.edu 50 (that's what my post-it note said on the bulk loader) to dry in the shower area after first running the hot shower for a few minutes. Had to move the film drying bag a few hours later into a much drier area so the wife could use the shower. Also reverse-curled them on the reels this morning and stored them in a bag until scanning time. Film was nicely flat! So I don't know if I need to do BOTH procedures to combat the dry SoCal air…more experimentation necessary. Would like to skip the humid-room treatment and just reverse-spool them if I can get away with it.

Thanks everyone!

desi8888 · Jul 10, 2010

as far as placing the curly negs in the carrier, what could happen that is detrimental?

Worker 11811 · Jul 10, 2010

It was explained to me that humidity causing the emulsion to swell or shrink is what causes film to curl. As the humidity in the air goes up, the emulsion swells and causes the film to cup. As it was explained to me, the ideal situation is when the film placed flat on the table with the emulsion side up and the edges curl slightly upward. This is called "positive curl." At approximately 50% to 60% humidity, film is supposed to have a very slight positive curl.

If the air is too dry and the emulsion of the film it will shrink too much causing an extreme positive curl. If the air is too humid, you can actually get a negative curl as it expands.

If the emulsion is too moist, it can become soft and more prone to damage as it is handled or projected. If the emulsion is too dry it can become brittle. In extreme cases it can crack or flake as it is handled or projected.

If your film is curling up too much in either direction, the recommended practice is to adjust the humidity in the room where your film is stored. The recommended humidity levels are between 50% and 60%. If I remember correctly, the "optimum" humidity level is 54%.

desi8888 · Jul 10, 2010

but as far as image (on the paer) quality is concerned, what could occur?

Film curls... help!

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