Extreme push processing

[RoBBo]

I've been trying a lot of rather extreme push processing, at first using TMax, I decided I was losing edge defenition at a certain point and switched to XTol to get some accutance back, not knowing at the time how well it worked for push processing. Shortly after I realized how welll it worked for that, and started pushing things farther and farther.
I've gotten up to 50,000 EI before I got to the point where I was having issues that made me have a real problem with the images. (Obviously I don't give a shit about shadow detail, just getting an image where I otherwise wouldn't be able to.)

At 50,000, in XTol 1:1 for 34 minutes, I started getting these spots on the film that I eventually associated with the film being wet for that long combined with the fact that it was a powder developer causing something to work its way into the emulsion. This was backed up by another roll a friend of mine did for 25 minutes or so that had the same issue, but had a different color to the spots, as mine were orange/yellow (Stop) his were blue/purple (Clear) so I figured the emulsion broke down and got the specks in it earlier in the process for me than him because it spent a longer time in the dev to begin with. This is just conjecture on our part though and we don't really know for sure, anyone else having any takes on this would be appreciated.

So based on that, I had two things I was thinking of trying. The first was superheating the XTol, I figured if I brought the temp up to about 100* or so, I could cut the development time to below 20 minutes. I used the 30s/degree rule I've been told as a starting point, anyone know how true that would stay at such a major change?
My other idea was to try a Pyro developer, since I was under the impression that Pyro developers are meant to be used at very high temperatures, but I don't know much of anything about Pyros.

I'll be trying out some FG-7 and HC110 dil B for more 'normal' pushing, around the tune of 1600-6400 soon, would either of these be worth trying for higher pushes like I've been discussing?

Also interested in hearing peoples experiences with pushing 400 speed films to the 3200-6400 range, Tri-X 400, TMax-400, Neopan 400 and HP5+ are the ones I'm most concerned with, trying to get some extra speed out of my 6x6.
So far I've had pretty good results with Tri-X 400 at 3200 in XTol 1:1, but I'd really like to squeeze a little more shadow detail and/or another stop out of it that camera.

 

[Photo Engineer]

B&W film is not designed for high temperature processing unless you use a prehardener. Otherwise, above 75 F you get emulsion peeling off the film.

The problem you describe should not be a result of the developer. Prolongued development at 68 F should just gradually cause fog to appear. With extremes in time, such as 1 hour or longer, the film should fog and be very soft or begin to reticulate, not turn color.

PE

 

[DrPablo]

Why are you trying to push that much with an ISO 100 film? If you have an extremely flat scene and you want to boost contrast, I can't imagine that you'd benefit from more than a +3 or +4 push -- and if you still need more contrast you can tone the negative or print at a high grade. Obviously if you are pushing for speed there are plenty of faster films you could use instead.

A good film option for you might be that Rollei R3 film, which as I understand it has a native 200 ISO but can handle 50-3200.


The only film I've really pushed was Delta 3200 roll film (6x6). I exposed it at EI 12,800 and developed in 1:1 XTOL for 30 minutes using constant agitation. It actually turned out quite well -- retained good, smooth tonality in the highlights and a good contrast range. The grain was visible, but the resolution was very nice.

 

[RoBBo]

Why are you trying to push that much with an ISO 100 film?

I don't know where you got that from.
I'm pushing a mix of films, I'm asking mostly about pushing ridiculous levels with TMZ, not TMX.
Tri-X is the slowest film I'm pushing, and I'm not trying to get more than 6400 out of it.

Photo Engineer, thanks for the info, maybe I'll just try it at 75* stock and see what I can get out of that.

 

[DrPablo]

Oh, gotcha, I thought you meant Tmax 100.

I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard very good things about extreme pushes with HP5+ up to at least 3200 or 6400.

If I were to push HP5+ sheet film that high I'd consider doing a pre-exposure on zone 2 or 3 to improve shadow density.


Since you mention doing this on 6x6, you should take a look at Ilford Delta 3200. Ilford provides guidelines to use it as high as ISO 25,600. I've gotten good results at 12,800. Many people like it at 1600.

This is Delta 3200 pushed two stops to 12,800 (in 6x6 format):

 

[htmlguru4242]

Extreme pushing can be fun, but its tricky to get good results (if you get any at all). The farthest I've gone is EI 100,000-ish (im really not sure) with Delta 3200. There were images, but there was absolutely zero shadow detail, and not too many midtones either. I intend to take Tri-X and push it even higher, because it goes to 6400 just fine.

That shot at 12,800 looks nice though!