E6 Developing problems

rowghani · Feb 7, 2015

Hi guys,

Im running the Tetenal 3 step kit with a jobo cpa 2 and I'm getting some weird results. Im shooting fuji prove 400x that I'm getting online from Japan and ran the kit at the specified times in the manual and all my negs we're coming out with a blue tint to them. Then I saw that the Jobo site recommended different times (increased FD time as an example) and so I ran a batch as follows:

FD 7:30
Rinse 3:00
CD 4:00
Rinse 1:00
Bleach/fix 6:00
Rinse 5:00
Stab 1:00

What weird is that the colour balance (is that what it is called? ) looks good on a few of the shots. Ive included pic 1 to show this. The reds look good and there is no bluish tint, but then on most of the other shots (on the same roll) still have that bluish tint to them. Pic 2 shows this and i've included pic 3 that shows the difference after I change the white balance in Light room.

I know its tough to diagnose this due to all the different variables and running it with the Jobo recommendations has made a difference, however anybody have any idea why some of the shots would look good and others are still showing this problems when they are on the same roll? Thanks in advance.

wildbill · Feb 8, 2015

How much solution are you using in what tanks?
Rotating both directions?

gzhuang · Feb 8, 2015

Assuming you're using non-Kodak slide film, you may want to try a 81B filter over other slide films and stick to the recommended times on the instructions given.

I think you'll experience colour shifts if you fiddle with the CD timings. I've only fiddled with the FD timings for pulling and pushing.

rowghani said:
Hi guys,

FD 7:30
Rinse 3:00
CD 4:00
Rinse 1:00
Bleach/fix 6:00
Rinse 5:00
Stab 1:00

Rhodes · Feb 8, 2015

I use the same kit for my E6 films. For Fuji films and with fresh solutions the FD is 7 minutes, the rest is as the instructions
2:30 Rinse
6:00 for CD
6:30 Blix
Rinse:4m
Stab: 1m

rowghani · Feb 8, 2015

Thank so much for replies guys,

i am am preparing fresh 250 ml solution and using the uni tank 1520. I know the tank says 240 ml capacity but I'm pouring in the entire amount. Yes rotating both directions at 75 rpms. Thoughts?

rowghani · Feb 8, 2015

Rhodes said:
I use the same kit for my E6 films. For Fuji films and with fresh solutions the FD is 7 minutes, the rest is as the instructions
2:30 Rinse
6:00 for CD
6:30 Blix
Rinse:4m
Stab: 1m

Have you ever had the blue tint problem?

darkroom_rookie · Feb 8, 2015

Blue tint was a problem for me when I started developing Provia (100F 4x5, 400X 120, all fresh and carefully exposed). I use FujiHunt 6X kit, though. Diluted the reversal bath and added a little NaOH to the colour developer, and it solved the problem. Also rinsed the FD even more, but 3:00 should be enough. Tetenal kit combines reversal and colour dev in the second, CD step, correct? Maybe try the same - dilute, add NaOH. Or do two or three shorter rinses after the FD?

Rhodes · Feb 8, 2015

rowghani said:
Have you ever had the blue tint problem?

No, never noticed that when using provia of agfaphoto slide films (they are provia rebrand, I think)!

Rudeofus · Feb 8, 2015

That image of the dog (second image) looks like it was taken in the shade, whereas the store front (first image) was sun lit. There is a good chance that the color temperature in that dog image was off to begin with, and the saturation of slide film would amplify the bluish character of the light you had there. Add to that the extra contrast you get from overdevelopment ...

rowghani · Feb 8, 2015

darkroom_rookie said:
Blue tint was a problem for me when I started developing Provia (100F 4x5, 400X 120, all fresh and carefully exposed). I use FujiHunt 6X kit, though. Diluted the reversal bath and added a little NaOH to the colour developer, and it solved the problem. Also rinsed the FD even more, but 3:00 should be enough. Tetenal kit combines reversal and colour dev in the second, CD step, correct? Maybe try the same - dilute, add NaOH. Or do two or three shorter rinses after the FD?

hey for the rinse after FD I actually change the water every 30 sec for the 3 minutes so I don't think that's the problem. Anybody else had issues with provia?

rowghani · Feb 8, 2015

wildbill said:
How much solution are you using in what tanks?
Rotating both directions?

Hi bill,

i am am preparing fresh 250 ml solution and using the uni tank 1520. I know the tank says 240 ml capacity but I'm pouring in the entire amount. Yes rotating both directions at 75 rpms. Thoughts?

wildbill · Feb 8, 2015

Shouldn't be any issues with that. I don't have my tanks in front of me but I asked because if you weren't using enough solution, the end of the roll at the center of the spool wouldn't be getting enough chemicals to it. I use speed 4, I don't know what rpms that equates too.
Like someone else said, shooting in shade will yield cooler slides but yours looks excessive and you said it varies on the roll. Post a shot of a section held up to a window or on a light box so we can see several frames in a row.

rowghani · Feb 8, 2015

wildbill said:
Shouldn't be any issues with that. I don't have my tanks in front of me but I asked because if you weren't using enough solution, the end of the roll at the center of the spool wouldn't be getting enough chemicals to it. I use speed 4, I don't know what rpms that equates too.
Like someone else said, shooting in shade will yield cooler slides but yours looks excessive and you said it varies on the roll. Post a shot of a section held up to a window or on a light box so we can see several frames in a row.

So frames 9,10,11 turned out very nice, but starting from 12 onwards there is a heavy blue tint. I do remember that it got cloudy really fast but I have a hard time believing it would get that blue in the shade. I'm pretty sure the exposures where correct on most of them, and besides underexposed should just have a lot of dead blacks no? I really don't know what is going on but maybe the previous comment about the slight blue cast being amplified due to the high development time might make sense. Let me know what you think bill.

Rudeofus · Feb 9, 2015

Look at this slide scan. The image was taken not at but near sunset with otherwise blue sky. Kodak E100VS slide film was used, the scan represents what the slide looks like.

It's amazing what our eyes can compensate for, and this applies to both brightness levels and light color.

lhalcong · Feb 9, 2015

don't forget the additional blue added by the scanner itself.

Photo Engineer · Feb 11, 2015

When slides suddenly change balance in mid stream with no change in blacks, and no appearance of crossover, then it is usually a lighting or filtration problem. Did you add or remove a filter? Did the time of day change substantially (greater than 2 hours) or did a lot of clouds roll in or roll back?

All of these would do what I see here. Process does not appear to be at fault.

PS: Scanners do not add blue!

PE

rowghani · Feb 12, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
When slides suddenly change balance in mid stream with no change in blacks, and no appearance of crossover, then it is usually a lighting or filtration problem. Did you add or remove a filter? Did the time of day change substantially (greater than 2 hours) or did a lot of clouds roll in or roll back?

All of these would do what I see here. Process does not appear to be at fault.

PS: Scanners do not add blue!

PE

Hey I dont use filters and yes it turned cloudy all of a sudden. Does that mean that shooting slides in cloudy or shady conditions will always result in a bluish tint? Thanks.

rowghani · Feb 12, 2015

Also can underexposing cause bluish tint? Thanks in advance.

MattKing · Feb 12, 2015

The light from a blue sky is very blue. So if the sky is illuminating your subject, and the yellow sun isn't also illuminating the subject, your subject will be blue unless you use a compensating filter.

And if you underexpose something that is blue, it will look darker, and therefore more blue.

rowghani · Feb 13, 2015

MattKing said:
The light from a blue sky is very blue. So if the sky is illuminating your subject, and the yellow sun isn't also illuminating the subject, your subject will be blue unless you use a compensating filter.

And if you underexpose something that is blue, it will look darker, and therefore more blue.

how about the shade?

Photo Engineer · Feb 13, 2015

rowghani said:
Hey I dont use filters and yes it turned cloudy all of a sudden. Does that mean that shooting slides in cloudy or shady conditions will always result in a bluish tint? Thanks.

Time of day is important as are clouds.

The sun is "white" but UV appears "blue". When the sun is covered by clouds, more UV radiation gets through the clouds to expose the film, and so the balance changes.

If both time of day and cloud cover vary a lot a big change can be expected.

PE

Rudeofus · Feb 13, 2015

Look at the filter characteristics of an 80A filter and consider that with slide film a single stop of light makes a tremendous difference in outcome. That 80A filter compensates for the difference between tungsten lighting and daylight, two light sources which our eyes would normally see as "mostly white".

If you shoot slide film without filters, stick to direct daylight or studio flash, everything else will give you odd results.

MattKing · Feb 14, 2015

rowghani said:
how about the shade?

Except on a cloudy day, anything in the shade is illuminated primarily by that very blue sky, and by definition, not illuminated by that very yellow sun.

Rudeofus · Feb 14, 2015

MattKing said:
Except on a cloudy day, anything in the shade is illuminated primarily by that very blue sky, and by definition, not illuminated by that very yellow sun.

This, again, depends on how translucent the clouds are, and on many other parameters. For all those who want to shoot slide film in random weather and lighting conditions, there are handheld color temperature meters which can tell you the correct filtration for neutral color balance, and even those won't help you with mixed lighting (see my example image).

Photo Engineer · Feb 14, 2015

UV penetrates clouds and is blue as far as the film is concerned.

PE

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