Don't shoot me; but, can I print 6x12 negs on Beseler23CII that's set up for 35mm?

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by rpavich, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. rpavich

    rpavich Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Location:
    West virginia, USA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Ok, here is the deal. I have a Beseler 23CII that I have a color head on; the Dual Dichro S. It's set up to expose 35mm; it has the silver "tunnel" tube going from the light source to a diffusion chamber that's more focused for 35mm. To use it for MF up to 6mm x 9mm you take out the tunnel to allow the light to disburse more and replace the diffusion chamber.

    I'm planning on shooting a Holga WPC pinhole camera that makes 6X12 negs and I don't want to dismantle that thing and convert it back to MF everytime I want to print so I'm wondering how much fall off will I get? I am also getting a 6x9 negative carrier that I'm going to widen. If that doesn't pan out, I'm going to try and just make a custom neg carrier.

    In any case, do you think that the fall off will be really really bad? I dont' have any MF negs to try it with to see.

    My other option is to contact print them but that's a pretty small print and I wanted to have the option of enlarging them at least some.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  2. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,807
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Wes
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dear rpavich,

    Is the negative stage wide enough to allow light to pass through a 6x12 negative? In other words, will the enlarging lens "see" the entire negative? It seems unlikely to me. I would think that a 4x5 enlarger is necessary.

    Good luck,

    Neal Wydra
     
  3. OP
    OP
    rpavich

    rpavich Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Location:
    West virginia, USA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Ahh...disappointing but good to know. Thanks very much.
    Looks like I'll be contact printing those negs for a while. :smile:
     
  4. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,470
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    California
    Shooter:
    35mm
    you can make contact prints!
     
  5. darkroommike

    darkroommike Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,167
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Iowa
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No and no. The 23C all versions can print at maximum a 6x9 negative, a 6x12 is much longer. And a 35mm setup, 50mm lens and a 35mm carrier will not "cover" you need a 4x5 enlarger, a glass carrier or 6x12 glassless carrier (I have both for mine) and a lens in the 135mm to 150mm range. You could make a print from a 6x9 segment and then another from the other end of the same negative and join the prints with tape on the back (been there done that for panoramas).
     
  6. jack straw

    jack straw Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Location:
    Maryland
    Shooter:
    Analog
    I believe 6x9 is the largest you can go with this enlarger. I have the 6x9 carrier for it, and I would have to look at it again but I believe it takes up most of the diameter of the circle that the carrier seats in. Apparently the 23 in 23C signifies 2 1/4"x3 1/4" (6x9 cm)--the max size.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    rpavich

    rpavich Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Location:
    West virginia, USA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Yep...that's my plan I guess. I just looked at the price of 4x5 enlargers on ebay...yikes.

    Thanks Mike. Looks like that plan will be on hole for a while.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    rpavich

    rpavich Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Location:
    West virginia, USA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I see that. Not only do I need to go wider, I don't want to dismantle the thing just to print some pinhole shots.
    For the moment, contact printing is my plan.
     
  9. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    8,570
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, you would take out the 35mm mixing chamber and when you print you might lose about 1.5 cm on each side of the negative. You can take this into account when you compose the image in the camera.
     
  10. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    22,290
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Just shoot your pinhole with the printing limitations in mind.
    And then get yourself the necessary accessories (6x9 negative carrier, lens mount, 105mm lens) to allow you to use the centre 9 cm of your negatives.
    In the meantime, watch Craigslist for 4x5 enlargers.
     
  11. paul ron

    paul ron Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,624
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    hey just try it. it may just clip the corners but a bit vignetting can add some feeling to your shot.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    rpavich

    rpavich Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Location:
    West virginia, USA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Ahh..I see. I think that I'll do that. I have an 85mm but that's the longest at the moment.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    rpavich

    rpavich Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Location:
    West virginia, USA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Yeah...even if it did..that would be fine with me.
     
  14. Tim Stapp

    Tim Stapp Member

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Location:
    West Michiga
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Keep your eyes open on Craigslist. I picked up my Beseler CB7 for $20 a couple years ago. I'm seeing prices ramping up lately though.
     
  15. tedr1

    tedr1 Member

    Messages:
    795
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Location:
    50 miles from NYC USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ".....just clip the corners"

    My 23C even when set up for 6x9 with a 105 lens almost clips the corners of a 6x9 frame, so with 6x12 you will have a print with straight top and bottom edges and curved sides!
     
  16. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,940
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    12cm is almost 5". You're better off using a 4x5 enlarger. I'm not sure if the opening of the negative stage on the 23C is big enough.
     
  17. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    8,570
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I saw this image posted as a Holga WPC image; already cropped on the corners by the camera. I would certainly try these negatives in your enlarge and see what you get. You will be enlarging the good 6x9cm center portion of the negative that is not cropped by the camera.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. darkroommike

    darkroommike Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,167
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Location:
    Iowa
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Look locally, shipping will kill you. Craigslist not Ebay!
     
  19. mshchem

    mshchem Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
    Location:
    Iowa City, Iowa USA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I've known local shops that have given away Simmons Omega D5 dichro enlargers. People drop stuff off just to get rid of stuff. Keep your eyes open stuff turns up in the mean time try sandwiching the negative between 2 pieces of glass or make a cardboard holder. Crop out the best part. And start saving for a nice Linhof or Horseman 6x12 :laugh:. I've been down the 6x12 and 35mm pan camera path a couple of times. Much easier to get a used Fuji 6x9 rangefinder. Use a tripod and TMX or Acros, you can make 8x16 inch prints just by cropping the 6x9 and the prints will be awesome.
     
  20. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

    Messages:
    10,085
    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Another vote for looking for a 4x5 enlarger. With patience a great one can be found for little or nothing. I have my current Beseler 45V-XL with the three-lens turret AND the Oriental VC-CLS cold-light head on it for free - I was in the right place at the right time and the head was being given away, as was the chassis (at a later date). Back in the day, I'd have had to spend well north of $6000 to get that setup.

    as to 6x12 enlarging - you'll need to hunt for a 6x12 carrier or cut out a 6x9 (that's what I did). You'll also need a minimum of a 135mm enlarging lens, if not a 150 (depends on what you can find in your budget).

    Camera-wise, if you decide you like the format but want something optically more precise, the next step is a Lomo Belair (my current 6x12). For $300 you can get a Belair with the originally supplied plastic lenses (90mm - an acceptable lens, and the 58 - not useable for anything beyond contact prints) AND the Russian glass 90mm or 117mm lenses (absolutely worth the extra investment - Russian glass is actually outstanding - I took a shot of a building that was backlit, with the sun in the image area, and zero flare). The Russian lenses will make the camera nose-heavy, but you learn quickly enough how to handle it to compensate.
     
,