Does 35mm color slide film have a future?

Fotohuis · Dec 22, 2006

A complete economic analysis of the total industry shows that it is still contracting rapidly in all areas.

Correct but not so fast anymore like last two years. It's clear that a totally restructure is necessary to survive in this market for the comming next years for all manufacturers. Our B&W sales seems to be in a stable way at the moment and sure, Fuji has overtaken a big market from Kodak and Agfa.

At the moment we are out of Fuji Neopan (400) 120 roll film. The back ordering from Fuji Japan needs already a long time. Hopefully we are back in supply before the New Year.

Robert

Henning Serger · Dec 22, 2006

Photo Engineer said:
Henning;

Just taking point #1, I would like to comment.

Kodak built a plant in Brazil, and entered into an agreement with China to produce film in those two companies. As the economy grew, it was expected that the B&W market would begin to explode, and then the people would begin to use color.
........

PE

Hallo PE,

thank you for your comment. Very interesting information.
I was in China, in Bejing and Tianjin (negotiations for a research project, after that I had time to travel around). No problems at all to buy film (Lucky, Kodak, Fuji). Most of the Chinese photographers I've seen used film. And I've seen lots of Chinese with small compact film cameras (not single use cameras, but point and shoot), often from chinese production, "Great Wall" for example. But also lots of photographers with SLRs from the Japanese companys.
Similar experiences I have made in eastern europe and Russia.
You need a minimum of infrastructure to use digital in a satisfying way, either a computer or a printer for direct home printing. The barrier for a photographer with a low income is significantly higher using digital equipment.

But even if these markets will go to digital quite fast, I think in the long run the film market will nevertheless profit from the rapid growth in these countries. Because a certain percentage of photographers, who started with digital, will discover the advantages of the classic film photography (look at my previous posting, the "retro-trend").

In the last weeks I have convinced several photographers that film is a better solution for them than digital. If I can do that, why should the film manufacturers can't do that as well ?
Imagine, if every apug-member would do that... .

Best regards and a merry christmas,

Henning

copake_ham · Dec 22, 2006

Sadly, Kodak seems to have made a commitment to being a digital solutions company and shows no inclination to using its still dominant, if diminishing, presence in the US market to convince people to use film. I presume that their alliances with the digital camera makers overrides trying to preserve their film business.

In both the 35mm and 120 areas, the vast majority of both the pros and now most p&s consumers have "gone to digital". Thus, I think those of us who prefer film need to accept we are a niche market. Hopefully this niche will remain large enough to support all formats - although undoubtedly with reduced choices.

JBrunner · Dec 22, 2006

Kodaks problem is Perez, who wants to make kodak over into a printer/printing kiosk/paper/licenced name company, a typical suit who uses phrases like "synergy" and "critical mass". The shareholders seem to agree. For a company the size of Kodak, that must please its shareholders, it makes little sense to promote a shrinking market, and all kinds of sense to point to a brave new world, and keep the stock up. At that level. it matters little what a company actually makes, or how the revenue is arrived at. In other words, its got nothing to do with film, and I don't understand why anyone would expect something different out of a corporate monolith.

If there is any good news here it is that as kodak exits the market, smaller more nimble companies take up some of the slack, for what is to kodak niche products not worth producing in the "billion dollar sense of synergy and critical mass" is totally worth being made by a smaller company, if they can pull it off. I have no doubt we will be losing some products that won't be replaced.

On the other hand, there is lots of business left for companies that don't need to measure sales in billions.

Fear not but yourself. The biggest enemy to film are those who untruthfully claim its demise, out of ignorance, or self interest.

DBP · Dec 22, 2006

JBrunner said:
Fear not but yourself. The biggest enemy to film are those who untruthfully claim its demise, out of ignorance, or self interest.

Or, in some cases, sheer perversity.

firecracker · Dec 22, 2006

DBP said:
Or, in some cases, sheer perversity.

I would rather call it a "propaganda model."

bruce terry · Dec 22, 2006

JBrunner said:
If there is any good news here it is that as kodak exits the market, smaller more nimble companies take up some of the slack, for what is to kodak niche products not worth producing in the "billion dollar sense of synergy and critical mass" is totally worth being made by a smaller company, if they can pull it off. I have no doubt we will be losing some products that won't be replaced.

On the other hand, there is lots of business left for companies that don't need to measure sales in billions.

Yes, Tis thee nutshell of it, JB -

Black and white film prints and chrome slides have such outstandingly different qualities compared to ubiquitous digital color - and more and more simple pixel-makers are more and more aware of the difference and beginning to insist, for example, that their kid's formal images be FILM PRINTS ... PHOTO-GRAPHS, pictures with that 'look' that will never be lost.

More expensive market with many less suppliers coming up - but in time film and film related stuff should settle into a very small-but-profitable niche serving the discriminatingly-anal phototgraphers of this world. Oh, that would be us wouldn't it.

Bruce

copake_ham · Dec 22, 2006

I think the "holiday season" is espescially though for us "analogs".

Really.

This past month my local newspaper (The New York Times) has been chock-a-block with ads from Canon, Sony and Nikon etc. touting their latest lineup of digis - with particular emphasis on (m/l) 35mm format DSLRs.

Heck, Nikon is now has the D-40! A new low price 10+mp!

It used to be that at Christmas time you'd see ads for film (e.g. "Don't forget the Kodak!").

Now, the push is for consumers to acquire the latest "digi".

I'm really a bit "down" about this all right now. Both because I love my film gear and also because I realize my D-70 (not quite 7mp) is now so obsolete as to be laughable.

Boy, I miss the old days...

MattKing · Dec 23, 2006

copake_ham said:
I think the "holiday season" is espescially though for us "analogs".

Really.

This past month my local newspaper (The New York Times) has been chock-a-block with ads from Canon, Sony and Nikon etc. touting their latest lineup of digis - with particular emphasis on (m/l) 35mm format DSLRs.

Heck, Nikon is now has the D-40! A new low price 10+mp!

It used to be that at Christmas time you'd see ads for film (e.g. "Don't forget the Kodak!").

Now, the push is for consumers to acquire the latest "digi".

I'm really a bit "down" about this all right now. Both because I love my film gear and also because I realize my D-70 (not quite 7mp) is now so obsolete as to be laughable.

Boy, I miss the old days...

George:

Are you old enough to remember:

"Open me first!"

Matt

copake_ham · Dec 23, 2006

MattKing said:
George:

Are you old enough to remember:

"Open me first!"

Matt

Yep - it was that year's latest Instamatic - the present you opened first to take the pics of the kids opening up all the rest!

braxus · Dec 24, 2006

Is everyone forgetting Kodak just released the widely announced new/ revised Portra series of color films? Now doesn't that seem strange that a company bent on digital is upgrading its professional films and even giving out free samples for people to try with much advertising on the new stuff? I shot my first roll of the new stuff just today.

copake_ham · Dec 24, 2006

braxus said:
Is everyone forgetting Kodak just released the widely announced new/ revised Portra series of color films? Now doesn't that seem strange that a company bent on digital is upgrading its professional films and even giving out free samples for people to try with much advertising on the new stuff? I shot my first roll of the new stuff just today.

braxus,

Not at all - I started shooting my Porta feebies for this Xmas weekend. And the technology K had on the shelf a few years ago that is not coming out is not an indication of future advances. Are they doing any R&D in film anymore?

And remember, this thread is about 'chromes.

I love shooting slide film - in fact I just purchased 20 new mailers for Fujichrome.

But it is likely to be "the canary in the coal mine". When 'chrome goes - we know we filmsters are really in deep doo doo!

Merry Christmas/Chanucka/Kwanzaa/Solsitce/Festivus etc.,

ccbob · Dec 25, 2006

copake_ham said:
I love shooting slide film - in fact I just purchased 20 new mailers for Fujichrome.

George, did you happen to purchase these from B&H, for processing in Phoenix, Az? If you did, be aware the the Phoenix facility has closed down and all mailers are (allegedly) being forwarded to Dwayne's Photo in Kansas. I sent a roll of to Phoenix prior to finding out about this, and haven't seen it since (been over 2 months now).

Dwayne's gave me an updated address to send directly to them:
Fujicolor Processing
PO Box 837
Parsons, KS 67357

Merry Christmas!

Thanasis · Dec 25, 2006

JBrunner said:
At the present time availability of chrome film isn't really a consideration in choosing between 35mm and LF. Instead, focus on the real advantages, and disadvantages of MF vs 35. At the present time, with so much great used MF gear available at fantastic prices, its almost a no brainer, unless you must have 36 exposures on hand at once, or a very small camera, or very fast lenses.

35mm is certainly capable of providing great results, but MF will easily out perform 35 in most normal circumstances. You might try a decent, but budget TLR, and get your feet wet, and see if you like it. If you don't, you can resell the camera for what you paid for it, if you shopped well in the first place. If you really like the results, upgrade to a more sophisticated system.

You may be pleased to know that i took your advice and I am currently trailing a MF camera (Hasselblad 500C/M) with 120 chrome. My neighbour, a pro photographer who is going to digital, has been thinking about selling her Hasselblad for some time. She has let me borrow it for a week or two and I've been busy reading up on this unit and getting out there to shoot some frames. I have been using my 35mm SLR as a meter. I'm very keen to see the results.

Thanasis · Dec 26, 2006

Ahem...that should be "trialing a MF camera (Hasselblad 500C/M)..."

Photo Engineer · Dec 26, 2006

Awww Geee, and here I was picturing you dragging it around behind you by the strap.

PE

copake_ham · Dec 26, 2006

ccbob said:
George, did you happen to purchase these from B&H, for processing in Phoenix, Az? If you did, be aware the the Phoenix facility has closed down and all mailers are (allegedly) being forwarded to Dwayne's Photo in Kansas. I sent a roll of to Phoenix prior to finding out about this, and haven't seen it since (been over 2 months now).

Dwayne's gave me an updated address to send directly to them:
Fujicolor Processing
PO Box 837
Parsons, KS 67357

Merry Christmas!

Hi Bob,

Actually, I bought them from Hunt's Photo in Beantown. Logistics here are such that it is actually easier and cheaper for me to buy via eBay from them than from B&H (besides - have you ever been inside B&H? What a horror show!).

I'm aware of the processing change from Phoenix to Dwayne's. In fact, I first posted it in a thread here back in late June when I got the notice that: "Effective July 1, 2006, all E-6 slide mailers....".

Truth be told, I have still been sending them to the Phoenix address and delivery time has been no problem. If you're still waiting after two months I suspect that your slides are lost as my usual turnaround time is about 10 days.

I will probably start using the Dwayne's address directly now - but so far I've had no problem with still sending via the address on the mailer.

Paul Goutiere · Jan 15, 2007

Just imagine! You have planned that marvelous photographic trip to Machu Pichu or someplace like the kingdom of Mustang just on the edge of Tibet, maybe Irian Jaya ...... or oh wow, someplace you have never even considered.

You gather together all your most precious photographic tools, those instruments that function for you like extensions to your own hands. The cameras all check out; shutters have familiar crisp "snick", the light meters all agree. This stuff has never failed us, and it never will. Man! We are set!

Then You make a list of all the films to take, your favorites (we don't really trust our light meters with these films do we? We just know!)

We will bring back such treasures trapped in those silver emulsions that generations of future photographers will look for the places we set up our tripods.

The day before we go on our camera treck we go to get the film. All the best places in town..... and, the clerks look at us with smiles usually reserved for dotty seniors and the mentally infirm and states "Don't you realize that you can't get film any more? None! That's it! Where have you been?
What we do have is some really, really good flash cards. How about this nice little 16.5 mega pixel camera, brand new, in this blister wrap for a mere $49.95."

Sorry about this, maybe I should change my medication.

Paul

David Brown · Jan 16, 2007

Paul Goutiere said:
The day before we go on our camera treck we go to get the film. All the best places in town..... and, the clerks look at us with smiles usually reserved for dotty seniors and the mentally infirm and states "Don't you realize that you can't get film any more? None! That's it! Where have you been?

We won't find out that film is gone when we go to buy it retail. The news will have already been gleefully posted on the net by people saying: "See, I told you so!" :rolleyes:

And, yes, please adjust your meds ...

Bill Mitchell · Jan 16, 2007

What happens for film will be determined by the needs of commercial users, particularly the movie industry, and the progress of digital recording. Personally, I doubt that color transparency film will be around in another ten years except, perhaps, as a prestige item from Fuji. In five years our choices are going to be severly limited, and commercial processing will defintely be a serious problem.

trendland · Nov 25, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Slide film is dropping in sales more than any other branch of Color Analog Photography. Negative film sales are not dropping any where near as fast.

PE

Yes you have been right PE. I sugessted it in the opposite direction to the same time
of this little older threat.Because of I believed in photograpers - working with E6 and still hold on their films like bw photographers did it since 1977 - 1980.
In this period many people stated : "bw is still dead"
They all failed as we have learned.
Now we are at the end of a process all kind of films and papers including bw and color have seen a terrible lost of demand. Perhaps E6 was first from higher pricing at the beginning of crisis - but I can't say.
But now - the question of the OP in 2006 is still current these days isn't it ?

with regards

PS : I am not sure if Kodak is still able to have an answer. It seams to me they are
on the way to find out experimentally .

WilmarcoImaging · Nov 25, 2017

I’m glad slide film is still around and am thinking about giving it a try in 120 and 4x5. Mainly out of curiosity, but if I get good results I’ll offer it to clients.

faberryman · Nov 25, 2017

WilmarcoImaging said:
I’m glad slide film is still around and am thinking about giving it a try in 120 and 4x5. Mainly out of curiosity, but if I get good results I’ll offer it to clients.

What will they do with it?

Photo Engineer · Nov 25, 2017

We shall see then, won't we! E6 may come back or not.

PE

Craig · Nov 25, 2017

WilmarcoImaging said:
I’m glad slide film is still around and am thinking about giving it a try in 120 and 4x5. Mainly out of curiosity, but if I get good results I’ll offer it to clients.

A 4x5, or even better 8x10 slide on a light table has a very definite wow factor.

Does 35mm color slide film have a future?

Fotohuis

Henning Serger

copake_ham

JBrunner

Moderator

DBP

firecracker

bruce terry

copake_ham

MattKing

Moderator

copake_ham

braxus

copake_ham

ccbob

Thanasis

Thanasis

Photo Engineer

copake_ham

Paul Goutiere

David Brown

Bill Mitchell

trendland

WilmarcoImaging

faberryman

Photo Engineer

Craig

Does 35mm color slide film have a future?

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