Disappointing results with Adox Ortho 25: spots

timeUnit · Dec 5, 2006

I'm developing in the Rollei LC developer, using 1+5 dilution and a agitation of 15 sek / 3 minutes. Developing time for EI 12 was 15 minutes, and EI 6 12 minutes. I use a water stop bath, Ilford Hypam fixer at 1+4, Kodak HCA, and final wash using Ilford wash sequence. This is the same procedure I use for all my films.

Clarification: these are 4x5 inch sheets.

I'm getting very strange spots. They don't look like drying marks (I very seldom have drying marks on my films. I use a little wetting agent in the last was and let the drip dry in the bathroom), but smaller, and seem to be IN the emulsion. I can't see them on the surface of either side of the film.

See the attached files for examples.

Some sheets have quite ugly scratches on the non-emulsion side. I don't think it's my fault, but cannot rule it out.

Maybe the film is defective?

I might add that I get none of these spots on any roll films I'm using. Not even Lucky films! ;-) I just developed a set of 4x5 Iford HP5+ in Rodinal, and they show none of these spots.

I have seen similar spots once, using Fortepan 400 film sheet film, but they were a bit larger.

I have contacted the seller, but they have not addressed these issues yet, although they have confirmed receiving my e-mail.

Thoughts?

bob100684 · Dec 5, 2006

wierd. I just tried efke films myself this past week and have very similar marks on them. My tri-x and foma pan don't exhibit these.

Bill Mitchell · Dec 5, 2006

Have you tried using a pre-deveopment water bath?

timeUnit · Dec 5, 2006

I can't remember if I used a prewash with these sheets. Will have to look in my notes at home.

Photo Engineer · Dec 5, 2006

They look like a type of coating defect.

PE

uraniumnitrate · Dec 5, 2006

Is this the only place you have it on your neg or it shows on the entire neg? I can't think of anything else than something you did if it's only that one spot! If it's a problem with the coating than it will show not only on this but all of other wich are in that box! Coating problem is very often goes through out of the whole production! not always but very often! it's simmilar when find some kind of demage in the film base! in this case is polyester!

timeUnit · Dec 5, 2006

It's in various places on the negs. Of four sheets, two had BAD spots, two less bad. They were developed at different times, i.e not together in the same tank.

The spots show more in middle density areas, that's why I show the same place on each neg.

Photo Engineer · Dec 5, 2006

It looks like either unfiltered emulsion with particulate matter, partially unmelted gelatin, dust in the coating room or some similar type defect introduced during the coating operation. I cannot be sure unless I see a large blowup of the material or examine it under a microscope, and even then it would be a guess as to cause. But, it does appear to be a coating defect of some sort.

PE

SteveH · Dec 5, 2006

Odd. I have shot 100 sheets of efke 25; using two boxes of 50; ordered about 8mo apart. I have NEVER had any spots/streaks/etc. I use a pre-soak of 2mins, rodinal 1+50, and water for stopbath. Kodak hardening fixer.

Photo Engineer · Dec 5, 2006

See the thread on EFKE results here. These problems are intermittant. I think it may be due to the fact that these companies are ramping up production in the face of the loss of Agfa in Europe, and the faster turnaround is leading to occasional defects.

PE

uraniumnitrate · Dec 5, 2006

As I told here or somewhere else before I always been a Kodak-Agfa-Forte man but tryed a lot's of other product and I don't think Efke is a product to blow a big hurray for! It fell out of my 8x10 holder because this is a thin neg with often a bad results! And so as Adox! This things for people don't know what they want or for people who wanna save a dollar or two! Remember this, you got what you have payed for!

I use Kodak for color and other special films Agfa for papper and some films and Forte för both. I might try other things in the fututre too, if it's gonna be new product which I'm not that shure any longer will come but it doesn't mean that I'm gonna switch! One thing I know for sure that I never gonna tuch any Shanghai the film with "the almost not visible grain" ! ;-)

Agfa step out of business with their had up because they seen the future! It's always better than facing bankrupsy!

uraniumnitrate · Dec 5, 2006

timeUnit said:
It's in various places on the negs. Of four sheets, two had BAD spots, two less bad. They were developed at different times, i.e not together in the same tank.

The spots show more in middle density areas, that's why I show the same place on each neg.

I can again agree with Mr engineer! It would be the only way to tell if ecxamine under an electromicroscope to give any secure and relevant resolution what kind of damage you have! We can all guess but it's not the name of the game!
Proposal! Send it back to J&C or what ever you brought it and ask them to tell you what that is! And don't take a we dont know for an answer! Surely it could be your liftime pick next time! I mean I don't understand how you people think! This is a serious matter! Some images you just can't redo!

avandesande · Dec 5, 2006

It looks like the emulsion got stuck to something while it was still wet.

timeUnit · Dec 5, 2006

Just to be clear:

This is ADOX Ortho 25 film. I'm not sure if it has anything at all to do with eFKe, and have never said so. To be honest, I find it less than likely that eFKe would produce a film that so radically differs from their other products. But then again, I have no info on this whatsoever.

Also: I did not buy this film because I'm cheap. I gave up on "cheap" film some time ago. I bought it because I wanted to try a fully orthochromatic film, for portraits. With the problems I've had so far, I'm not thrilled to use it on anything at all, especially not portraits.

I just might try out Ilford Ortho, if I can find it. But first I'd like to get to the bottom of these issues.

Jerevan · Dec 5, 2006

I guess this might be an emulsion defect, but I am not going to bet anything on it. BTW, how does the film feel like, is it thinner than a "normal" sheet film? I am on the look-out for ortho film myself and am interested in more input on how it behaves in general.

uraniumnitrate · Dec 6, 2006

timeUnit said:
I just might try out Ilford Ortho, if I can find it. But first I'd like to get to the bottom of these issues.

Ask Robert White in the UK they might have the possibilities to help you to get Ilford ortho!
And yes, do go to the buttom with that problem with Adox but don't forget to tell us what you have find out! That is important! And good luck!

timeUnit · Dec 6, 2006

Jerevan said:
I guess this might be an emulsion defect, but I am not going to bet anything on it. BTW, how does the film feel like, is it thinner than a "normal" sheet film? I am on the look-out for ortho film myself and am interested in more input on how it behaves in general.

It feels like normal acetate (that's what it's called, right?) film support, but is much clearer. It's on a polyester base. The non emulsion side on some sheets had some bad scratches. Based on my experience with this film, I can't recommend it. We might be able to buy some Ilford Ortho together, though? As I understand it, their main supply of film in Sweden is located in Partille, just outside Göteborg...

Jerevan · Dec 6, 2006

I have been using Efke OP12 for a while now, and the latest trials to tame the contrast with Neofin Blau seems to be working out. I like the look but I am not particular about the thin film base. It's sometimes hard to figure which side is the emulsion side. Fortunately, it's possible to load in safelight conditions, otherwise the lack of notches would drive me crazy... In the end of the day, the OP12 is cheap enough to play with but time and chemicals add up to the cost. And I have my hunches about the Adox...

I am interested in getting two boxes of Ilford Ortho 13x18 (depends on price), if you're up to making an order.

timeUnit · Feb 8, 2007

Update:

FOTOIMPEX have failed to reply to several of my emails, sent both to their "info" address and to mirko himself. They have given me no explanation, no tips on avoiding the issues, and no offers on refunds or other compensation.

It's now been two and a half months since my first complaint to them, and while they answered me to say they had received my email, they have not answered at all the last two months.

To be honest, I'm a bit dissapointed by this, and maybe a tad angry. I bought stuff from them to a value of 750 EUR. Might be small time for them, but not for me.

Daniel_OB · Feb 8, 2007

The fault I would not address to Efke. I used their films around 30 years ago and no one time had any problem, nor I ever saw anyone else around me using Efke complained. There can so many reasons to get "something else" on the neg, and in your case I would at first look at "border check radiation" even in the case of iso-25.

www.Leica-R.com

timeUnit · Feb 8, 2007

Daniel:

What are you writing about? Have you read the thread?

Chris Singleton · May 26, 2008

I recently shot some Efke Ortho with the same results as timeUnit. the spots were scattered throughout the center 2/3 of the sheets. was this issue ever resolved? thanks.
Chris

Rolleijoe · May 26, 2008

timeUnit said:
I'm developing in the Rollei LC developer, using 1+5 dilution and a agitation of 15 sek / 3 minutes. Developing time for EI 12 was 15 minutes, and EI 6 12 minutes. I use a water stop bath, Ilford Hypam fixer at 1+4, Kodak HCA, and final wash using Ilford wash sequence. This is the same procedure I use for all my films.

Clarification: these are 4x5 inch sheets.

I'm getting very strange spots. They don't look like drying marks (I very seldom have drying marks on my films. I use a little wetting agent in the last was and let the drip dry in the bathroom), but smaller, and seem to be IN the emulsion. I can't see them on the surface of either side of the film.

See the attached files for examples.

I might add that I get none of these spots on any roll films I'm using. Not even Lucky films! ;-) I just developed a set of 4x5 Iford HP5+ in Rodinal, and they show none of these spots.

Thoughts?

I've used Rollei Ortho25 and the results were beautiful, processed regularly in Rodinal 1:50. Been using Efke film for a couple of years now, and have never had any spots, whether Rodinal or HC-110.

I DO have 2 MF rolls of Adox Ortho 25 to try, just waiting for the right mood.
Will keep an eye out for such spots.

Rolleijoe

Jim Noel · May 26, 2008

If the film is packed without separation sheets, I would suspect that the film got too hot somewhere along the line prior to opening th box. There is a possibility that this action could cause the films to stick together in spots, mainlyin the center first, thus producing the spots.

I use Efke film all the time and have never seen this problem with sheet film.

Disappointing results with Adox Ortho 25: spots

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