dedicating a 3800 for all "black Inks"

[ann]

am re-phasing this question as i am surprised no one here is using all Black inks" in a printer. I t hought carbon was the correct term

 

[mdebar]

Piezography ?

I assume you mean some type of ink like those sold under the name "piezography" (see http://www.piezography.com/What_is_Piezograpy_site.html ). I have seen very beautiful prints using this technique, for instance, those by the Belgian photographer Pascal Damuseau (see http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=12654 ).

As I have no personal experience of this type of inks, I could not comment more.

Carbon printing normally refers to an "alternate" photographic printing, see for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_print for a brief description of the technique. This technique is rather difficult to master, and very time consuming.

michel debar

 

[ann]

i understand about the use of carbon prints of an alternative process.

however, there are those who use that term for all black inks with inkjet as there is no such thing as all black, just shades of grey

 

[Eirik Berger]

I have used both Piezography inks, and Ultratone inks for years, which is a given numbers of grey shades and black. It is in my opinion the best way to get high quality BW prints from digital images. I have just ordered a Piezography K7/MPS inkset for Epson 3800, which provides 6 shades of grey, 2 blacks (for matte and glossy paper) and Gloss optimizer. This setup uses all 9 slots in the printer.

I prefer to use IJC/OPM software from Bowhaus, but I have reasons to believe that the upgraded version supporting the Epson 3800 does not give you control over all 9 ink cartridges. And that would be very disapointing. Then I will have to use QTR, which also is a nice peace of software

I tried Ultratone inks for my olde Epson 7500, and I liked the idea that I could get warm, neutral and cool prints with one ink-setup. But the printer died, and I will now experiment with K7 (MPS) Selenium inks on non-matte surfaces. Earlier Piezography was a suitable for matte papers only.

Eirik Berger

 

[piticu]

i used piezography on a epson r2400 drived by qtr. i'm so pleased about it that i want to get a cis filled with this wonderful ink set.

 

[ann]

thanks for the response.

i will call jon about his inks.

on the site they still show the ink for matt papers, and i have missed feelings about this surface for black and white. I see that he suggested QTR which gives me a bit of pause .

I have been using Qimage as a printing software and would rather not change; however, that doesn't seem to be the case for piezography inks

 

[piticu]

Mr Cone is very helpful, write him and he will not let you down. Good luck and keep us posted please

 

[donbga]

am re-phasing this question as i am surprised no one here is using all Black inks" in a printer. I t hought carbon was the correct term

Just curious. Have you tried the Epson ABW mode using custom ICC profiles?

After trying Eric Chan's ICC profiles and work flow I saw no point in using non OEM inks.

I know some people object to this because a small amount of colored inks are used which could fade differentially with carbon only inks used for the black, light black, and light light black, how ever I enjoy the flexibility that using colored inks offers.

Additionally Tyler Boley points out that an all carbon based ink set does produce sharper prints, but that's only detectable by inspecting prints with a loupe.


Don

 

[ann]

i did try some of Eric Chan's profiles and other suggestions, and i am still not happy. Am getting a slight green cast, which is madding.

SO i thought i would check out other options, to see what is available.

 

[donbga]

i did try some of Eric Chan's profiles and other suggestions, and i am still not happy. Am getting a slight green cast, which is madding.

SO i thought i would check out other options, to see what is available.

That's very strange Ann. I've used Eric's ICC profiles with several different papers and so have others I know locally with sterling results.

What paper(s) are you printing on?

Chan's profiles really have been the cat's meow for the 3800 and 7800 printers at least the output that I've seen.

Don

 

[pschwart]

That's very strange Ann. I've used Eric's ICC profiles with several different papers and so have others I know locally with sterling results.

What paper(s) are you printing on?

Chan's profiles really have been the cat's meow for the 3800 and 7800 printers at least the output that I've seen.

Don

I profiled a number of papers and got beautiful prints with ABW. I still prefer a dedicated monochrome inkset and I have dedicated a printer for this, but ABW can make great prints and it certainly is much more convenient than profiling a custom inkset.

 

[ann]

i have used epson's luster and something else in glossy, which may be the issue ; which of course crossed my mind as well; just trying to dertermine which direction to move toward.

they just aren't neutral, i am going to try some cotton rag papers this weekend to see if i can get something i like better an/or some of the papers listed below.

I had thought i would make some profiles, but then decided i would use Eric's as he certainly is more knowledgeable than i .

I have quite a few papers that i got when i was testing out another printer. Epson Exhbition, hahnemuhle fine are baryta, ilford gold fibre silk, harman gloss and harman matt along with a box of red river samples. All of those are on Eric's profile list (only by accident on my part).

I would like to reduce the number and types of papers and settle on one or two. THe luster that was bought at the same time as the 3800 seemed to be a nice surface in place of the cotton rag, which are more warm for my taste.

Anyway, any specific recommendations on what might be the most neutral for black and white?
thanks for the support.

 

[jag2x]

Has anyone tried printing digital negs this way?

 

[piticu]

Anyway, any specific recommendations on what might be the most neutral for black and white?

You CANNOT get something else BUT neutral with carbon inks. The only thing that can influence the overall hue is the color of the base paper: use a white paper get a neutral print, use a warm paper such as hahnemuhle bamboo and you get a yellowish print

 

[piticu]

Has anyone tried printing digital negs this way?

usually the inks are designed to reflect light. when they have to let pass/block radiation, usually the behavior is different.

currently i'm using k3 inks to make digital negatives.

 

[ann]

piticu,

that question is with regard to using the provide inks in the epson 3800, not all carbon inks.

several others have been successful with using the epson ink and have suggested it might be the paper type; which of course crossed my mind.

However, the other option was to go to all "black ink", but there are several reason i would rather not if and it is a big if, netural tones would be possible using the provided inkset.

my plan was to test some papers that i have on hand with Chan's profiles and was looking for some feedback from those who have had successful experience with a specific paper . I am not opposed to testing, but was trying to narrow down the options to a more managable number with a goal of deciding on a few papers instead of so many.

The number of papers available these days remind me of the old days of Kodak, with 14 surface types. Makes your eyes glaze over just thinking about which to use, let along test.

 

[piticu]

i apologize for my mistake

 

[ann]

no problem

 

[Davec101]

Has anyone tried printing digital negs this way?

Yes it works very well. A great option for people just starting out with digital negatives.

 

[donbga]

no problem

Hannemuhle photo rag looks awesome. Red River Aurora Art papers are economical options and look good. Harmon Fiber Gloss AL is really nice for glossy but Epson Luster works well also. Epson Enhanced Matt or Archival Matt also looks good for a cheap paper but be warned the base yellows - even in storage before printing. I believe the Moab papers would print well too.

If Mad Man Chan does not have your paper listed then buy a profile from him - it's worth the $20 bucks if you really like a paper. He might even throw in a Color profile if you ask him but I'm not sure of that. He does the profiles quickly, BTW.

And yes ABW can be used for digital negatives. A digital step wedge when printed on paper using Chan's ICC profiles is pretty lnear though I have no idea how they would look printed as another process. My guess is that they would need a lot of tweaking.

Don

 

[ann]

thanks don,
i have been working with a few papers this morning.

The Harmon glossy does look good but has some head strike issues, at least on the first print i tried.

ann

 

[donbga]

thanks don,
i have been working with a few papers this morning.

The Harmon glossy does look good but has some head strike issues, at least on the first print i tried.

ann

Hi Ann did you straighten out your head striking problems? Just curious.

Don

 

[ann]

all the papers i tested worked fine it view in daylight conditions or under a 5000k bulb, but under the lights at school they have a green cast.

i think the issues with the Head strikes can be overcome with a bit of tweaking with the paper, as it has been sitting in it's box for along time, and it only had a few sheets left and i think the lack of humity created a bit of curve to the paper.

thanks for asking

ann