Crown Graphic with newer 135mm lenses

[campy51]

I have a Crown with the Xenar lens and the rangefinder and GG match which makes me happy for candid pictures which is the main reason I went with it. I have read many threads on using other 135mm lenses and many have said that the cams are different and it may not focus correctly. I have also read that using the camera the way I will be using it as long as I shoot at f16 or f22 the depth of field will be sharp within a couple of feet at a 10-15 foot range. Those may not be exact but it doesn't matter for the question I have. What difference does it make if the cam for a 135mm is 1/2 mm off if the depth of field is going to be a couple of feet? Would any 135mm lens be acceptably sharp at that range?

 

[waynecrider]

Years ago, and l'm talking quite a few, there were articles online on cutting your own cam's.
Now as to your question, I think it's easy enough to look at the ground glass to determine the answer to your question. Use a loupe tho because at smaller apertures it wll be harder to determine focus, and of course shorter focusing makes it darker.
Maybe use something bright in the scene or with a distingusable pattern. I use to mark my rails with blue tape for handheld work. Place target, tape measure, check ground glass for focus, mark rail, do it again. There are also charts online (hopefully still) for depth of field.

'

 

[BradS]

I have a Crown with the Xenar lens and the rangefinder and GG match which makes me happy for candid pictures which is the main reason I went with it. I have read many threads on using other 135mm lenses and many have said that the cams are different and it may not focus correctly. I have also read that using the camera the way I will be using it as long as I shoot at f16 or f22 the depth of field will be sharp within a couple of feet at a 10-15 foot range. Those may not be exact but it doesn't matter for the question I have. What difference does it make if the cam for a 135mm is 1/2 mm off if the depth of field is going to be a couple of feet? Would any 135mm lens be acceptably sharp at that range?

It is a good question...and intuitively, I'd say yes, you'll be ok...that is, the depth of field will (generally speaking) cover the minor focus error. As a kinda "feel good" example, consider that we tend to "guess focus" all manner of range finder less cameras (I'm thinking of the medium format folders for example) and do just fine at f/16 and longer subject distances.

I should mention too that I've been a long time Crown Graphic user/lover. My first one came with the Xenar and the rangefinder was whacked so, I kinda held it at arms length and focused with the ground glass or just scale focused and let the depth of field at f/16 take care of the focus error. I currently have a top rangefinder model with a very accurate rangefinder. I use it exclusively handheld.

Early on, I thought I needed a better optic than the stock Optar that came on my Crown Graphic...so, I bought and tried the 135mm Schneider Symmar-S, Rodenstock Sironar-N, and Fujinon-W lenses and tried those...yep, they all work. Are any really better than the Optar? No. Not really. So, I still use the Optar...but the shutters on all of the more sophisticated lenses are newer and more reliable.

 

[BradS]

oh...and the flange focal length one of the three lenses I mentioned above is actually very close to that of the Optar so that the rangefinder is still very accurate with that one...I don't remember which one it is though...maybe the Fuji ? IDK.

 

[StepheKoontz]

I could see having to adjust the rangefinder due to "flange depth" focal point of different 135mm lenses, but as long as the focal length is the same, the cam should work. I don't see how a lenses of the same focal length would require different cams.

 

[BrianShaw]

The “marked focal length“ is a nominal value. The cams are based on actual, measured, focal length. That why there are multiple “135 mm” cams.

But in general, with an aperture of f/8 or more, the rangefinder may be accurate enough... if it was accurate in the first place.

 

[BrianShaw]

But regarding the lens swap concept, I tried that years ago with a SuperGraphic and a Symmar-S 135. Same cam as for the Optar it came with. It worked fine but the camera wouldn’t close. Because of that I swapped back to the Optar...

 

[Ian Grant]

I could see having to adjust the rangefinder due to "flange depth" focal point of different 135mm lenses, but as long as the focal length is the same, the cam should work. I don't see how a lenses of the same focal length would require different cams.

You can adjust the position of the bit attached to the rear rails that the cam arm sits against to adjust for slight differences as long as the FL is the same.

Ian

 

[campy51]

I just developed my first shots with the camera but unfortunately I don't have a 4x5 scanner. Is there a way I scan the center of it on a Epson V550 just to see how it looks.

 

[btaylor]

I could see having to adjust the rangefinder due to "flange depth" focal point of different 135mm lenses, but as long as the focal length is the same, the cam should work. I don't see how a lenses of the same focal length would require different cams.

I would think that would be mostly true, but there are small differences of actual focal length between lenses that could make a difference though they would not be great. That’s one of the challenges of building a stereo rig- exact agreement of actual measures focal length. But I am probably splitting hairs.

 

[MattKing]

I just developed my first shots with the camera but unfortunately I don't have a 4x5 scanner. Is there a way I scan the center of it on a Epson V550 just to see how it looks.

Scan one side, flip the negative around, scan the other side and then stitch.
You may have to lay the negative on the glass, and make up a cardboard mask with a facsimile of the calibration window.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I just developed my first shots with the camera but unfortunately I don't have a 4x5 scanner. Is there a way I scan the center of it on a Epson V550 just to see how it looks.

Scan? What is this scan of which you speak?

Can't you just look at the negs? Light table, loupe and Bob's your uncle.

 

[shutterfinger]

could see having to adjust the rangefinder due to "flange depth" focal point of different 135mm lenses, but as long as the focal length is the same, the cam should work. I don't see how a lenses of the same focal length would require different cams.

The “marked focal length“ is a nominal value. The cams are based on actual, measured, focal length. That why there are multiple “135 mm” cams.

The Graphic cam list https://graflex.org/speed-graphic/top-rangefinder-cams.html starts at 132mm for 135mm marked lens and in some instances a 127mm marked lens will focus fine with the 132mm lens cam. Where does the 135mm end, 138.7mm, 140.4mm, or 144mm? Graflex cut a new cam for focal lengths greater than .5mm. Use a DoF calculator for each mm difference between 132mm and 138mm as the majority of marked 135mm lens will fall into this range at say 15 feet to see the the focus difference at various apertures. Current online DoF calculators do not cover large formats, this older version of Fcalc for windows does https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ly8ee3Zxj79X4i3uYH_pR66EZIWCClDH/view?usp=sharing

I just developed my first shots with the camera but unfortunately I don't have a 4x5 scanner. Is there a way I scan the center of it on a Epson V550 just to see how it looks.

With the lid closed measure from the edge of the transparency window in the lid to the edge of the bed glass (there is a little play that will affect results). Cut a card, mat, or similar to fit the bed front and one side that is just short of the calibration area that the negative can butt up against. Scan half the negative, flip, scan the other half then stitch them together. Scan with the emulsion side down to prevent newton rings. Been there, done that.

 

[campy51]

Here is a scan of a section in the middle. This was shot using a flash and I think it's a good start. What do you think?

 

[BrianShaw]

Why change anything? That’s a very good start. Handheld? What was the flash setup?

 

[campy51]

No on camera.

 

[Paul Howell]

I also swapped out my Optar for a Zeiss 135, like you no issues with using the rangefinder. My Zeiss is an older version single coated, I think 4 element, the Optar is just as sharp but the Zeiss has much better coverage.