Crossing over: a challemge

Ornello · Apr 6, 2005

This challenge is directed to those who are exclusively LF workers:

Take a walk on the wild side. Get a Leica M3 or M4 (no meter) and force yourself to take photos without a meter, without a tripod, and without taking half a day per shot. Try spontaneous, unfettered street or documentary photography. See how good you really are! Learn to shoot from the seat of your pants, so to speak.

Take a break from your usual procedures.

Something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30030&item=7505134222&rd=1

Jeremy · Apr 6, 2005

I do this everyday. My main camera is a B&J 5x7, but I now carry a Minox 35GT in my pocket everywhere I go.

It's an AE-only scale-focus 35mm camera loaded with Tri-X to be developed to grainy perfection in Rodinal.

There are 15 or so full Print-File sheets (I catalog by Print-File sheet and not by roll, I fill up a sheet before I move on to the next) that will be culled for some images to print in the near future.

If you want to buy me a Leica M3 or M4 to use then I'll use that instead, but the Minox was only $25.

Ornello · Apr 6, 2005

Jeremy Moore said:
I do this everyday. My main camera is a B&J 5x7, but I now carry a Minox 35GT in my pocket everywhere I go.

It's an AE-only scale-focus 35mm camera loaded with Tri-X to be developed to grainy perfection in Rodinal.

There are 15 or so full Print-File sheets (I catalog by Print-File sheet and not by roll, I fill up a sheet before I move on to the next) that will be culled for some images to print in the near future.

If you want to buy me a Leica M3 or M4 to use then I'll use that instead, but the Minox was only $25.

But this is a challenge to those who are not already 35mm users...and no AE!

Ole · Apr 6, 2005

Been there, done that. I even do that with LF on occasion...

This one was shot with a FED-2, indoors, exposed by pure guesswork.

Jorge · Apr 6, 2005

Ornello Pederzoli II said:
This challenge is directed to those who are exclusively LF workers:

Take a walk on the wild side. Get a Leica M3 or M4 (no meter) and force yourself to take photos without a meter, without a tripod, and without taking half a day per shot. Try spontaneous, unfettered street or documentary photography. See how good you really are! Learn to shoot from the seat of your pants, so to speak.

Take a break from your usual procedures.

Give it a rest, how about you use a LF camera and learn how to use a meter and properly compose and take a picture instead of "spraying" wildly hoping to get a good picture.

I dont know if you are scarpitti or not, but you are just about as annoying as he is....

Oh and BTW I shoot hassleblad without a meter, learning to estimate exposure is not such a great feat as you try to make it sound.

Welcome to my ignore list....bonehead.

Ornello · Apr 6, 2005

Ole said:
Been there, done that. I even do that with LF on occasion...

This one was shot with a FED-2, indoors, exposed by pure guesswork.

Great!

JG Motamedi · Apr 6, 2005

I often shoot LF without a meter, does that count?

photobackpacker · Apr 6, 2005

Ornello Pederzoli II said:
This challenge is directed to those who are exclusively LF workers:

Learn to shoot from the seat of your pants, so to speak.

So, Ornello, are you 1/4-20 or 3/8 - 16 down there.....

Ornello · Apr 6, 2005

JG Motamedi said:
I often shoot LF without a meter, does that count?

No, not for this challenge.

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 6, 2005

Jorge said:
I dont know if you are scarpitti or not, but you are just about as annoying as he is....

Hmm... Mussolini avatar, historical handle (a member of the Italian resistance during WWII)--seems like the Scarpitti/hansbeckert M.O.

johnnywalker · Apr 6, 2005

Jorge said:
Give it a rest, how about you use a LF camera and learn how to use a meter and properly compose and take a picture instead of "spraying" wildly hoping to get a good picture.

I dont know if you are scarpitti or not, but you are just about as annoying as he is....

Oh and BTW I shoot hassleblad without a meter, learning to estimate exposure is not such a great feat as you try to make it sound.

Welcome to my ignore list....bonehead.

Is this rude obnoxious behaviour something you're cultivating to enhance a reputation as an eccentric ass? Welcome to my ignore list. You'll find it lonely. You're the first one on it.

Jorge · Apr 6, 2005

johnnywalker said:
Is this rude obnoxious behaviour something you're cultivating to enhance a reputation as an eccentric ass? Welcome to my ignore list. You'll find it lonely. You're the first one on it.

As we say in Mexico, better alone than in bad company.....you wont find it lonely in mine..

JG Motamedi · Apr 6, 2005

I am clearly missing something here.

Donald Miller · Apr 6, 2005

Ornello Pederzoli II said:
This challenge is directed to those who are exclusively LF workers:

Take a walk on the wild side. Get a Leica M3 or M4 (no meter) and force yourself to take photos without a meter, without a tripod, and without taking half a day per shot. Try spontaneous, unfettered street or documentary photography. See how good you really are! Learn to shoot from the seat of your pants, so to speak.

Take a break from your usual procedures.

Something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30030&item=7505134222&rd=1

Well, you know I did that about 30 years ago when I was just getting into photography. What I figured out was that the reason for 35 mm is that it didn't cost nearly as much when you screwed up...which occurs fairly regularly with your philoosophy.

Now before Johnny boy adds me to his damned ignore list, which I don't mind at all by the way...I am not flaming 35 mm shooters. Everybody has to start somewhere.

blansky · Apr 6, 2005

JG Motamedi said:
I am clearly missing something here.

The originator of this thread, under a false name has been running amuk thru the halls of APUG trying to strike down all the sacred cows, to make people think, or rethink their habits and systems.

He obviously has an axe to grind and some members would rather see it placed firmly into his forehead.

Some people are fighting back at this phantom person and having flashbacks of who he may or may not be in reality.

Best to just sit back and enjoy the ride or don't read the thread. One thing for certain, I'm going to make a fortune off my Nutball Filter.

Michael

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 6, 2005

blansky said:
The originator of this thread, under a false name has been running amuk thru APUG trying to make people think, or rethink their habits and systems.

Not just APUG. He's been thrown off the Leica Users Group, various photo.net lists, APUG, and a few others more than once.

The message is always the same--35mm is enough and acutance developers are best. Then there will be some scans from photo instruction manuals from the 1970s or thereabouts, and some photographs of brick structures and maybe a couple of sports snapshots. Always some references to classic B&W cinema as well.

My armchair psychoanalysis--somewhere back in the age of acutance developers when 35mm replaced everything like digital is now, something snapped, some relationship went wrong, and he just wants to pick up where he left off, with a roll of Panatomic-X and beaker of Crawley's best.

http://www.agelesslove.com/boards/showthread.php?t=17399&page=1&pp=15

photobackpacker · Apr 6, 2005

It is becoming clear that this individual is a "flame troller" intent upon inciting others to react. ......I seem to remember a saying about a fart in a windstorm.

I, too am pleased for the Nutball Filter.

Ornello · Apr 6, 2005

Donald Miller said:
Well, you know I did that about 30 years ago when I was just getting into photography. What I figured out was that the reason for 35 mm is that it didn't cost nearly as much when you screwed up...which occurs fairly regularly with your philoosophy.

Now before Johnny boy adds me to his damned ignore list, which I don't mind at all by the way...I am not flaming 35 mm shooters. Everybody has to start somewhere.

These were made without meters, using 35mm equipment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/A1057448
http://www.life.com/Life/special/kiss01a.html
http://www.life.com/Life/eisie/eisie02.html

I guess they're not very good, then. I guess AE should have used a LF camera and composed more carefully.

Bob F. · Apr 6, 2005

JG Motamedi said:
I am clearly missing something here.

Just fill you in: the originator of this thread has already been thrown off this forum at least twice but keeps reappearing under different names. Not surprisingly, some are less than happy that he keeps reappearing. Do a search on "michael scarpatti" - his usual pseudonym - and you will see what I mean... Some do not have a problem with him: most do.

Cheers, Bob.

Ole · Apr 6, 2005

blansky said:
... trying to strike down all the sacred cows, to make people think, or rethink their habits and systems.
...
Best to just sit back and enjoy the ride or don't read the thread...

Making people think, or rethink their habits and system seems like a good idea to me. It may hurt at times, but it can be worth it.

These last few days most of the uproar has been caused by some people reacting to who they perceive "Ornello Pederzoli II" to be, not to what he has to say.

So if everybody would lean back, relax, and maybe think before typing, APUG will be our friendly community again. Maybe not quite as exciting, though...

roteague · Apr 6, 2005

Ornello Pederzoli II said:
Take a walk on the wild side. Get a Leica M3 or M4 (no meter) and force yourself to take photos without a meter, without a tripod, and without taking half a day per shot. Try spontaneous, unfettered street or documentary photography. See how good you really are! Learn to shoot from the seat of your pants, so to speak.

Ornello, I like your idea, but it isn't for me. My passion is landscapes, I have no real interest in any other type of photography (OK, I also like still life, table top stuff). I don't do street shooting (although I did when I was younger) for the same reason I don't skydive - I have no interest in it. My work would not have the same passion if I tried it.

But, great idea anyway.

Jorge · Apr 6, 2005

Ole said:
Making people think, or rethink their habits and system seems like a good idea to me. It may hurt at times, but it can be worth it.

These last few days most of the uproar has been caused by some people reacting to who they perceive "Ornello Pederzoli II" to be, not to what he has to say.

So if everybody would lean back, relax, and maybe think before typing, APUG will be our friendly community again. Maybe not quite as exciting, though...

I disagree Ole, this guy has little to say. Estimating exposures is no big deal, what else does he have to say? The purpose of his post is to troll and once more ruffle feathers. Chosing to work one way does not mean we cannot work any other way....

Aggie · Apr 6, 2005

NO!
1. I do not want to spend more money on yet another camera. I have 2 - 35mm and do not see that I have to have a Lecia just to do 35mm work.

2. What is wrong with medium format range finders? Is it that it is not compact enough in the negative department? I wanted a negative big enough I could work more with. I use to always shoot by the seat of my pants as to exposure. Been there done that, moved on to something more challenging.

3. Why confine yourself? photography is a vast and wide open field (for non digital). Why limit yourself to one type of camera, and one style of shooting? I use what tools I have to get the look I want.

4. I prefer not to please you, but myself. If I like it that is the most important factor, your esthetic opinion be damned.

5. Come up with something more orginal than a starting point we all have done.

This whole challenge sounds more like an exercise to make us conform to his methods and his narrow view of photography. I suggest if you truely want to have a challenge then go backwards and learn how it was done with wet plates. That is a challenge. It also was done sans meters and the zone system. You would truely have to learn to work by the seat of your pants. No fancy 35mm camera, but a box with an old style lens and a bunch of chemicals, and your knowledge to depend on.

Ornello · Apr 6, 2005

Aggie said:
NO!
1. I do not want to spend more money on yet another camera. I have 2 - 35mm and do not see that I have to have a Lecia just to do 35mm work.

2. What is wrong with medium format range finders? Is it that it is not compact enough in the negative department? I wanted a negative big enough I could work more with. I use to always shoot by the seat of my pants as to exposure. Been there done that, moved on to something more challenging.

3. Why confine yourself? photography is a vast and wide open field (for non digital). Why limit yourself to one type of camera, and one style of shooting? I use what tools I have to get the look I want.

4. I prefer not to please you, but myself. If I like it that is the most important factor, your esthetic opinion be damned.

5. Come up with something more orginal than a starting point we all have done.

This whole challenge sounds more like an exercise to make us conform to his methods and his narrow view of photography. I suggest if you truely want to have a challenge then go backwards and learn how it was done with wet plates. That is a challenge. It also was done sans meters and the zone system. You would truely have to learn to work by the seat of your pants. No fancy 35mm camera, but a box with an old style lens and a bunch of chemicals, and your knowledge to depend on.

1) Ah, you miss the hole point! The feel!

2) Nothing.

3) Why do you feel what you're doing is more challenging?

4) It's just a challenge, that's all.

5) Maybe you should go back and see how what you have learned might affect your work for the better.

sanking · Apr 6, 2005

Ornello Pederzoli II said:
This challenge is directed to those who are exclusively LF workers:

Take a walk on the wild side. Get a Leica M3 or M4 (no meter) and force yourself to take photos without a meter, without a tripod, and without taking half a day per shot. Try spontaneous, unfettered street or documentary photography. See how good you really are! Learn to shoot from the seat of your pants, so to speak.

I invite you to take the same challenge. Rent or borrow a 12X20" camera and use it for several months to make platinum/palladium prints and see how your work compares to some of the masters of ULF and Pt./Pd. Do nature work, or haul it around in the street for reportage photography if that is the only thing that turns you on.

You challenge to large format photographers to use a 35mm Leica is rather pointless because most of us, probably well over 95%, gravitated to large format after initially working with 35mm. I personally used only 35mm for the first 15 years of my involvement with photography, and I had several Leica cameras, including an M3 without a meter. I enjoyed it and made a lot of nice images, but eventually I became more interested in different subjects that caused me to move more and more in the direction of large format photography. So in answer to your challenge I have to say, as will a lot of others, been there and done that.

But exactly what is your larger point? Do you not accept the fact that superb work can be done in photography with any type of camera, from an inexpensive Holga or Diana to the most expensive Leica or ULF Ebony? Or do you really believe that the only true path is your way, reportage work with a sleek Leica? If so, you must be a very boring and pathetic person.

Sandy King

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