CC Filters for Variable Contrast Paper?

[jolefler]

Has anyone used yellow CC filters when printing variable contrast paper? If so, do you recall values to grade equivalents?

 

[Nick Zentena]

You might get someplace looking at the Ilford contrast pdf. Used to be on the Ilford website I assume it still is. I don't remember if CC filters match CP filters or not. If they do then you could just look at the Kodak colour head numbers.

I assume you know but to be complete. Just using yellow you'll only get grades below grade #2.

 

[jolefler]

Thanks folks, I'll check further. Being new to the forum I don't know how to reply to a private message in this regard that I received, but: the reason for my query is that I own two sets of cc filters from yesteryear.... just getting back into printing & don't own a set of cp's! Yep, I'm trying to be thrifty!

 

[Donald Miller]

Thanks folks, I'll check further. Being new to the forum I don't know how to reply to a private message in this regard that I received, but: the reason for my query is that I own two sets of cc filters from yesteryear.... just getting back into printing & don't own a set of cp's! Yep, I'm trying to be thrifty!

Rather then trying to match CP filters grade for grade with CC filters, I would opt for using the maximum yellow and maximum magenta that you have in CC filters and split grade printing exclusively.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Both CC and CP filters from EK match. The difference is quality. One is meant to be sandwiched with the negative and the other is meant to go below the lens. I forget which is which, but the difference is related to potential for distortion of the image below the lens.

Also, the ones going below the lens come in smaller sizes than those that are sandwiched with the negative. In the latter case, they come in sizes as large as the largest LF negative in common use. That is 11x14 IIRC.

PE

 

[Lopaka]

CC (color correction) filters are the higher quality designed for the image to pass through without distortion. CP (color printing) are designed to filter the enlarger light source before reaching the negative. (I always remember by referring to CP = cheap plastic). Cheap here is a relative term - only meaning lower quality then CC.

Bob

 

[Donald Miller]

CC filters will typically be provided in designations of mulitples of .10 units of a given color. In my experience they were often used to modify the color balance of a film at the time of exposure. They were provided in some colors that were not normally used in color printing. I remember that I used a .10 light green for photographing with Ektachrome to approximate the greater green rendering of Fugichrome. I don't recall CC filters having nearly as high of values as CP filters.

CP filters have much richer hues of a given color and carry higher numerical designations in my recollection.

 

[Photo Engineer]

CC filters will typically be provided in designations of mulitples of .10 units of a given color. In my experience they were often used to modify the color balance of a film at the time of exposure. They were provided in some colors that were not normally used in color printing. I remember that I used a .10 light green for photographing with Ektachrome to approximate the greater green rendering of Fugichrome. I don't recall CC filters having nearly as high of values as CP filters.

CP filters have much richer hues of a given color and carry higher numerical designations in my recollection.

Don, internally at EK, they all come in all gradations and colors so I'm not sure what is sold on the market. The basic difference is in the actual quality of the filter itself. One is cast and the other is coated. The colorants are the same though IIRC. We used to get them in 8x10 sheets in the stockroom, so I never had to worry about the different types. Isn't that sad? Makes me want to go back to work. LOL

PE

 

[Donald Miller]

Don, internally at EK, they all come in all gradations and colors so I'm not sure what is sold on the market. The basic difference is in the actual quality of the filter itself. One is cast and the other is coated. The colorants are the same though IIRC. We used to get them in 8x10 sheets in the stockroom, so I never had to worry about the different types. Isn't that sad? Makes me want to go back to work. LOL

PE

Yes, I understand. After rethinking my ealier post, I wonder if CC filters are in sufficient intensity to work in use as a variable contrast black and white filter or a color printing filter should that be the desired application.

Whereas CP filters should work for black and white variable contrast printing.

 

[Lee L]

Yes, I understand. After rethinking my ealier post, I wonder if CC filters are in sufficient intensity to work in use as a variable contrast black and white filter or a color printing filter should that be the desired application.

Whereas CP filters should work for black and white variable contrast printing.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but here's the info given before in a different form.

CC and CP filters will work identically (unit for unit) in terms of contrast for VC paper. The only difference is that the CC filters will be of the quality that will allow you to use them below the lens. The CP filters should go into the light path above the negative. In other words, the CC filters are fine for use in the optical path that forms the image, i.e. somewhere between the negative and the paper (or in making the negative, between the subject and the film). CP filters are designed to change the light color before it hits the negative from behind, and are not optical quality, and thus less expensive.

CC filters are often used, among other things, for fine tuning color in small increments in studio work. I used them most often in holders that attached to the rear lens elements inside the (view) camera. That keeps them cleaner and exposes them only to image forming light rays, as opposed to flare causing out-of-frame light.

Lee

 

[Donald Miller]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but here's the info given before in a different form.

CC and CP filters will work identically (unit for unit) in terms of contrast for VC paper. The only difference is that the CC filters will be of the quality that will allow you to use them below the lens. The CP filters should go into the light path above the negative. In other words, the CC filters are fine for use in the optical path that forms the image, i.e. somewhere between the negative and the paper (or in making the negative, between the subject and the film). CP filters are designed to change the light color before it hits the negative from behind, and are not optical quality, and thus less expensive.

CC filters are often used, among other things, for fine tuning color in small increments in studio work. I used them most often in holders that attached to the rear lens elements inside the (view) camera. That keeps them cleaner and exposes them only to image forming light rays, as opposed to flare causing out-of-frame light.

Lee

I fully understand the difference between CC and CP filters. I used them over twenty years ago.

The fact that I failed to recall when I posted initially and that I remembered later is that color correction (CC) filters go to about .50 maximum (Kodak published list) and that color printing filters go to about 2.50 maximum (B&H site). Thus a .50 magenta color correction filter will not reach a grade four on black and white variable contrast paper. Nor will a .50 yellow likely reach a grade one.

That is what I meant and I hope that I have explained myself clearer this time.

 

[Lee L]

I fully understand the difference between CC and CP filters. I used them over twenty years ago.

The fact that I failed to recall when I posted initially and that I remembered later is that color correction (CC) filters go to about .50 maximum (Kodak published list) and that color printing filters go to about 2.50 maximum (B&H site). Thus a .50 magenta color correction filter will not reach a grade four on black and white variable contrast paper. Nor will a .50 yellow likely reach a grade one.

That is what I meant and I hope that I have explained myself clearer this time.

Donald,

OK, I understand now. I hadn't reviewed your earlier post.

You'd just have to stack CC filters to get the same total effect as the maximum CP filter, more filters and more expensive. For split filter printing, I'd probably buy sheets of Rosco or Lee lighting gels and use them above the negative. They are much cheaper, at something under $6 for a large sheet that can make multiple sets. Anchell recommends Rosco 68 and Roscoe 389 for the blue and green split printing filters. The Rosco 3107 yellow can also be used for the low contrast exposure.

Lee