Camline shutter testers

[Mark Crabtree]

I recently got a Camline Shutter Analyzer Model 22 that is partially working. I haven't been able to find any information about it. This is a nice little vertical unit with light above focused through a lens onto a removable sensor plate on the main box housing the display. It has a 3 probe sensor for focal plane shutters and should report shutter speed at 3 points, or shutter speed and curtain speeds. The display for the 2nd curtain just keeps counting in either mode.

I'd love to get some information on this line of equipment, and a schematic would be wonderful of course. Catalog, manuals, ads, Camera Craftsman mention, etc if anyone has something in their files. I'm also interested in the ZTS line, especially the Tester V. I also have the Camline Camera Exposure Tester Model A40 in good working order though I'd be surprised if the standardized light source is still entirely accurate. But that is a single probe tester that does not measure curtain speeds. The only info I have is ads for that and the ZTS posted in this recent thread.

This seems like nice professional gear though the 1990 date for the A40 ad surprises me as it seems rather out of date for the price and time. Maybe it had been around for a while. I would have thought it and the Model 22 were 70's/early 80's models.

 

[Mamiya_Repair]

Camline was one of several small companies that emerged in the late 1970's making camera test equipment. I remember seeing their first ads in the SPT Journal around 1979 or so. They originally were located in Isleton, California and later in Running Springs, California and the company was operated by Ted Loomis. By the early 1990's, ads were no longer showing up in SPT Journals so my guess is that's about when the company ceased operation. Needless to say, technical info on the products would be difficult to locate.

 

[ic-racer]

Can you post a picture of the device and the internals too?

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Thanks to both of you. I'll try to post a picture of the Model 22 later today. I used to use Flickr to post but don't use it anymore. I imagine I can just post directly here.

I have only had this since Sunday so haven't been into the internals yet. I did get it to work once which agrees with what my friend said that I got it from. I plan to check connections in there anyway, but it might be a day or two.

That ad for the A40 in the thread I linked is from SPT Journal, January/February 1990, but it sure looks kind of dated by that time. I think the A40 might be the tester my friend was using in the early 80's but am not sure at all. It would be nice to see at least an ad for the Model 22. SPT is the latter name for Camera Craftsman isn't it? I have 6 or 8 from the 70's but did not find any mention of Camline in those, so maybe they started late 70's/early 80's.

 

[MattKing]

I imagine I can just post directly here.

Use the Attach files link at the bottom left of the posting window.
Resize it first down to 1000 pixels on the long dimension, and then convert it to a jpeg with quality less than 100.
Larger files work, but that size file is usually trouble free.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Thanks Matt. The size info is helpful.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Can you post a picture of the device and the internals too?

Here's an overview picture for now of the Model 22 tester. It is still on my very messy basement workbench where I was doing bicycle work, then lately Jobos; not where I do camera repair.

I haven't had a chance to do more than clean it up so far; it had been in garage storage for quite a while. I'm not even clear yet how it opens up, but not a simple panel to lift off. I've got quite a few camera repairs backed up right now so may not get inside it for a few days or more. I'd just like to see what Camline said about it though, and a manual might have a schematic of course. It is nice that they printed directions on the face, plus a fraction to decimal shutter speed chart on the light column.

The 3 probe focal plane shutter sensor is installed here and the rest of the accessories are laying around it on the top. Th at sensor fits a 35mm focal plane, and I imagine the jig with feet is to support a medium format camera. What I assume is the leaf shutter sensor is laying there too. I'll take a picture of that later since it is not something I'm familiar with; I have not gotten that working yet. The sensor attachment point has six jacks and seems to use four for the three probe sensor and three for the leaf sensor. They just slip in making connection through the male jacks.

 

[ic-racer]

What is wrong with it?

 

[Mark Crabtree]

What is wrong with it?

The third display (2nd curtain speed) just keeps counting and doesn't display a number. I'd think it was the probe, but I assume it uses all 3 probes to report shutter speed and 1st curtain speed.

 

[ic-racer]

I guess you have checked obvious things like that the hole to the sensors are clear etc.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

I guess you have checked obvious things like that the hole to the sensors are clear etc.

As best I can. Doesn't it seem like it would be using the two outer most probes for curtain travel, and the center for shutter speed anyway, so I was guessing all three are functioning or it wouldn't be reporting shutter speed and first curtain time.

I got it open now and will go down and take a couple pictures soon, but clearly over my ability other than anything obvious like connections. It sure looks like 1970's construction and I see some capacitors that look fairly new.

Here's the sensor that I assume is what they are calling the leaf shutter sensor. I don't understand exactly what this one is and have not gotten it to work so far. I'll try again once I close the unit back up because I'd like to check a couple of Rolleis.

The three probe sensor has four jacks, one at each of the four corners. I think the two sensors only share one connection on the unit, so I guess a ground.

 

[ic-racer]

The third hole, in the direction of curtain travel, is the one in question (the one that triggers second curtain time).

 

[Mark Crabtree]

The third hole, in the direction of curtain travel, is the one in question (the one that triggers second curtain time).

Yes but isn't it also used to check first curtain travel time. It seems like you need both the 1st hole and 3rd to do that well. I think spacing is the sort of standard 32mm, but need to check that with a ruler. I did check and clean the holes.

Any thoughts on the sensor I posted a picture of? It is not a style I'm familiar with.

 

[reddesert]

I speculate that the leaf shutter sensor has a larger photo-detecting element than the focal plane sensors, so that it can integrate over a larger amount of the shutter opening to average over the shutter's aperture efficiency (the fact that the shutter is open for a longer time at the center). If one tests a leaf shutter using only a pencil beam of light through the center, it should look slower than it is in practice. This only matters at the fastest speeds.

 

[ic-racer]

Yes but isn't it also used to check first curtain travel time. It seems like you need both the 1st hole and 3rd to do that well. I think spacing is the sort of standard 32mm, but need to check that with a ruler. I did check and clean the holes.

Any thoughts on the sensor I posted a picture of? It is not a style I'm familiar with.

Yes, you are correct, if it is reading first curtain transit time correctly.
Not sure about the sensor in the picture.

 

[Mamiya_Repair]

Thanks to both of you. I'll try to post a picture of the Model 22 later today. I used to use Flickr to post but don't use it anymore. I imagine I can just post directly here.

I have only had this since Sunday so haven't been into the internals yet. I did get it to work once which agrees with what my friend said that I got it from. I plan to check connections in there anyway, but it might be a day or two.

That ad for the A40 in the thread I linked is from SPT Journal, January/February 1990, but it sure looks kind of dated by that time. I think the A40 might be the tester my friend was using in the early 80's but am not sure at all. It would be nice to see at least an ad for the Model 22. SPT is the latter name for Camera Craftsman isn't it? I have 6 or 8 from the 70's but did not find any mention of Camline in those, so maybe they started late 70's/early 80's.

Here is a photo of the Camline ad for the Model 22 in the SPT Journal Jan/Feb 1978.

Regarding Camera Craftsman/SPT, they were separate entities. Camera Craftsman was published by National Camera Repair School from 1954-1980. SPT (Society of Photo Technicians) published the SPT Journal.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Thank you for that. It is nice to have a few specifications. I didn't realize what SPT was. I see why Camline would have preferred to put their advertising money there rather than with a competitor, though ZTS shows up a bit in Camera Craftsman. I appreciate you digging that out. It is amazing what isn't on the internet.

General Update - I've been waiting for some resolution on my progress, but everything is open ended. I had the leaf shutter sensor working today, though a bit finicky. I think it is attempting to measure "full open" time rather than total open time, and that is appealing. Leaf shutters are a more complicated business than I realized back when I was using them for work.

I think there are at least some poor connections inside the tester. It behaves differently after I've opened in an unplugged and replace connectors. Those leads and connectors should probably be completely redone, but more than I'm going to take on myself. I don't know if there are also component issues or not. If the leaf shutter tester indeed works, then it will be useful even just for that.

Thanks to everyone for ideas and suggestions. It sure would be nice to find a manual, but that seems unlikely.

 

[TheAnalogZeitgeist]

Hi Mark,

I have an A40 that I inherited from my mentor, but we haven't been able to find the manuals or the sensor in her storage. Are you willing to share pics of the sensors or of the manual? There's a virtual vacuum of information out there beyond the aforementioned images from SPT ads, which I did find.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Hi Mark,

I have an A40 that I inherited from my mentor, but we haven't been able to find the manuals or the sensor in her storage. Are you willing to share pics of the sensors or of the manual? There's a virtual vacuum of information out there beyond the aforementioned images from SPT ads, which I did find.

Thank for the wake up. I've gotten sidetracked, but need to get back to messing around with this stuff.

My Camline A40 was working when I got it, but failed after a month or so. I didn't work too hard at resurrecting it since it is a very basic tester, at least with the setup I have.

It is sitting on a workbench in my basement so I'll see what I can come up with later today. I can post a picture of the senor. If you don't have the sensor, I think you would be better off going with one of the inexpensive modern ones if that is practical. Other than the calibrated light source, which is very unlikely to be accurate or useful today, this is a very basic tester. I didn't get any documentation with any of my gear. I found a few things online and in old ads. Like you say, these a pretty much undocumented today.

I may remember something when I look at it later.

 

[TheAnalogZeitgeist]

Thank you so much! I appreciate anything I can find out. I did not expect the light source to be accurate, but so far it seems to be quite good when I compare settings between cameras I'm working on and my modern Canon mirrorless. My mentor has a very nice Kyoritsu tester in her shop, so I use that when I need the advanced features.

WRT modern testers, I bought a shutter speed tester on ebay and while it seems pretty dang good most of the time, it has sent me chasing rabbit trails a couple times and then the EF-8000 said everything was within tolerances. I have looked at the Reveni Labs devices and read positive reviews of those. What device(s) are you using the most these days?

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Oops. I got off on a computer upgrade that went poorly, then got completely sidetracked. I really don't have much of anything for you, but did take a couple pictures of the sensor probe and its plug.

 

[TheAnalogZeitgeist]

That's pretty close to what I was imagining, but very helpful to know the colors and construction. Thank you!!