Calumet, Sinar an upgrade question.

[Darryl Roberts]

Hi,

I went out this morning, golden hour, to shoot Atlanta's Blue Tower, the bag on my Calumet CC-402 sagged into it, I had to remove the lens and push it up. I don't like this. I was using a 90mm lens.

Anyone with a Sinar F1 or F2 that's used a bag bellows, is this a problem? I'm considering getting one.

 

[Vaidotas]

No.
And never was.
My widest is 90 mm on 4x5 and 165 on 13x18 though
Sinar P, F

 

[Nokton48]

Nope. Never. Consider a Sinar Norma

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Just glue a tab with a ring on the top of your bag bellows so you can pull it out of the way without removing the lens. Many bellows had such a feature OEM.

Best,

Doremus

 

[shutterfinger]

Just glue a tab with a ring on the top of your bag bellows so you can pull it out of the way without removing the lens. Many bellows had such a feature OEM.

They're called D ring. Brass, 1/2 inch ID atached with a leather strap was common. Should be available at a locaal hardware store.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Sinar made two different bag bellows options for 4x5, regular and for especially short lenses. Anytime you pull your standards tightly together you need to be certain that part of the bag will not be somehow tucked inside. But the Sinar bags are fairly thick and won't simply sag on their own.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

Sinar made two different bag bellows options for 4x5, regular and for especially short lenses. Anytime you pull your standards tightly together you need to be certain that part of the bag will not be somehow tucked inside. But the Sinar bags are fairly thick and won't simply sag on their own.

Thank you, I'm looking hard at the F2 and considering a Chamonix 45F-2. I just took the lens off and cannot deal with the strong leather intrusion from the top and one side. Another part of me says just get the Arca Swiss Field camera, but $4K is steep.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

Nope. Never. Consider a Sinar Norma

Thank you, how does the Norma differ from the F2?

 

[Nokton48]

Thank you, how does the Norma differ from the F2?

The Norma is the original Sinar. Made by Arca Swiss, for Sinar, in Switzerland, up until the late 1960s.
Here's a nice One........
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sinar-Norma-4x5-Film-Monorail-Large-Format-Camera-358/202628836272?hash=item2f2d9eabb0&enc=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&checksum=2026288362729644897a4d1742ce9568ed3f23ae82d5

It's as light as the "F" yet some (including me) prefer it to the "P". Unlikely to ever break unlike the "F"
This camera is on permanent display at the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, as a design object.
Some of the greatest Architectural Photographers in history have chosen to use the Norma.
Balthazar Korab, Ezra Stoller, Heinreich Blessing, Julius Shulman, Ansel Adams even had one.
And most modern Sinar accessories will fit on it.

They are amazingly undervalued. I paid $1500 for my first Norma!
Now I have four Normas (two 4x5s, 5x7, and an 8x10), and just about every accessory they made for it
You will never outgrow the Norma. It's a fabulous classic view camera.

Here's a couple of Normas in my studio; the front and rear Norma standards can be made to touch each other; that is adjustability!

DSC05904 by Nokton48, on Flickr

DSC05783 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's my 5x7 Norma

 

[Nokton48]

001 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's my 8x10 Norma

Google "Sinar Norma" for more info. You will be reading for a while!

 

[Darryl Roberts]

001 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's my 8x10 Norma

Google "Sinar Norma" for more info. You will be reading for a while!

Thank you very much. Norma it is.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

001 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Here's my 8x10 Norma

Google "Sinar Norma" for more info. You will be reading for a while!

Thank you so much Sir.

 

[Nokton48]

You won't regret it. Easy to find; check Ebay and German Ebay for accessories. Buy the original catalog and be amazed.

The difference between a Calumet vs the Norma, is like the difference between the VW Bug, and the Apollo Moon Buggy.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

You won't regret it. Easy to find; check Ebay and German Ebay for accessories. Buy the original catalog and be amazed.

The difference between a Calumet vs the Norma, is like the difference between the VW Bug, and the Apollo Moon Buggy.

Lol, okay.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I've backpacked many thousands of miles with Sinar cameras, under all kind of conditions, including mountaineering and canyoneering use - real torture test applications, as well as for studio and architectural usage. With an 18-inch rail (I like long lenses), my 4x5 system is just one pound heavier in the Norma system versus the F2 version, but it's a lot more solid. The later F cameras have smoother locks and gearing. Forget the old F+; it used an inferior intermediate standard as the front standard. P's and X's are beautiful machines, but unduly bulky for field work; and all that extra weight equates to the need for an equivalently stronger and heavier tripod support. So overall, the original Norma is my favorite Sinar series of them all. The lack of yaw-free controls is insignificant. It is a helpful feature if you are routinely doing tabletop photography in the studio, where intersecting planes are predictable, but generally of little relevance in the field. Monorails like this are extremely versatile in terms of the range of lenses they can accommodate, and quicker to set up than folding cameras. I do also use folders for sake of maximum portability, like airline travel or now for long-distance backpacking. But the Norma is way more convenient in actual use, and undoubtedly more durable too. It's also modular in terms of switching out components and potentially being multi-format. The sheer quality is also apparent; you just don't see that level of machining anymore; it would be prohibitively expensive nowadays. It's all the real deal - no CNC anodized aluminum. Everything can be user fine-tuned. Highly recommended.

 

[Nokton48]

002 by Nokton48, on Flickr

One last image. Since you are doing architecture, you are concerned about moves/wide angle photography. The Normas excel at wide angle photography. This is a 47mm F8 Super Angulon and I can do all the moves I need to with this lens. A considerable advantage.

 

[Besk]

I have a Calumet C-402. With mine I have made an effort to fold the camera up with the folds out of the way. So, when it is unfolded the bellows
have taken a little "set" which alleviates the problem.
That said, I also have a Sinar F2. It is lighter than the Calumet and of course more versatile. The Norma is a better camera (once had one) but I like
the F2 a little better, for my use, since it is lighter and seems a little more compact.

 

[jim10219]

The F series also have a depth of field calculator, which can be pretty handy. It's also usually a good bit cheaper.

Any of the Sinar cameras are good choices. And you can swap out just most of the parts from one model to another, which means you're not necessarily stuck with what you bought the first time.

Though if the saggy bag bellows are your only complaints, gluing some tabs to pull them out would be the cheaper option. You could use a coat hanger wire to hold them out. I've still had to pull the bag bellows out of the way with my F1. But they're stiff enough that they stay in place, so it's a rare issue.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

I have a Calumet C-402. With mine I have made an effort to fold the camera up with the folds out of the way. So, when it is unfolded the bellows
have taken a little "set" which alleviates the problem.
That said, I also have a Sinar F2. It is lighter than the Calumet and of course more versatile. The Norma is a better camera (once had one) but I like
the F2 a little better, for my use, since it is lighter and seems a little more compact.

Thank you. The Norma is my goal.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

The F series also have a depth of field calculator, which can be pretty handy. It's also usually a good bit cheaper.

Any of the Sinar cameras are good choices. And you can swap out just most of the parts from one model to another, which means you're not necessarily stuck with what you bought the first time.

Though if the saggy bag bellows are your only complaints, gluing some tabs to pull them out would be the cheaper option. You could use a coat hanger wire to hold them out. I've still had to pull the bag bellows out of the way with my F1. But they're stiff enough that they stay in place, so it's a rare issue.

Thank you

 

[Neil Poulsen]

A common problem with Norma standards, is that the risers may not be straight, making vertical rise and fall difficult. If you should encounter this, don't despair. A good repair technician can likely put this to rights.

For example, I've taken two or three standards with this problem to our local Advance Camera Repair in Portland, and they've all been returned in much improved condition.

 

[silveror0]

Darryl, I'm a happy owner of Sinar Norma Expert kits for 4x5 and 5x7, as well as an 8x10 assembled from components - all bought new in early '70s and all still fully functional. I've never regretted than decision. Only backpacked with the 4x5 for trips up to 10 days, using a DIY container for the folded camera attached to my original Kelty packframe. Here's a link to the Sinar Norma Instruction Manual that shows the recommended configuration for folding the camera (Fig. 17, p.12) that may be useful to you:
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/sinar_1.html

The Norma comes up often on the auction sites, here and in EU, many times are cobbled together versions from various components. Shop with caution, as often the condition may be "shady." One of the most common problems is spirit levels are dried up; authentic replacements are hard to find, although some Chinese substitutes are available (have never had to try them - mine are still in good shape).

 

[DREW WILEY]

My levels are fine, but I never use them anyway, even for architectural photography. A large pendulum angle finder works a lot better. Besides, how many buildings are actually level and plumb? And film rarely lies dead square in the holder either. So some degree of correction later is inevitable. Why I was younger I combined roles as a distributor to contractors, a technical consultant to them (especially color and restoration consultation), and as the large format photographer of the job when they were done. Many of these involved extremely expensive restorations and remodels of historically significant buildings. But here in earthquake country, old buildings are rarely level. But out in the burbs, the houses and warehouses are built sloppy to begin with, but fortunately for me, don't deserve good photos either; I had no interest in the burbs. I was out hiking around the hills today with my Norma. But since I'll be 70 in just a few more months, you'd be correct in assuming that I'll pack a lightweight folder instead on my next two-week backpack, in this case, a 4x5 Ebony. The Norma is way faster to use.

 

[wiltw]

For your Sinar you could seek a Horseman bag bellows, as the Sinar and Horseman accessories that fit the standards are interchangeable.
Here is a photo of my Horseman with bag bellows, with rear plate adapted to mount a digital SLR

 

[jim10219]

DL... One of the most common problems is spirit levels are dried up; authentic replacements are hard to find, although some Chinese substitutes are available (have never had to try them - mine are still in good shape).

They are ridiculously expensive! I replaced mine with cheap Chinese bubble levels when mine dried out. They work as well as the old ones, only they're green instead of white. The hard part was removing the old ones. After that, you just level the standards using a carpenter's level, and super glue the news one on. You can also drill a tiny hole in the old level and fill it with alcohol (94% rubbing alcohol, Everclear, or denatured should work). Don't use water, as may have mold or bacteria in it which can grow and ruin the level. Then just seal the hole with super glue.