C-41 in Australia

[Anthony Lewis]

I shoot 4X5 Portra and now wish to delve into C41 processing.
The big question to use is what chemicals? As far as I can see Vanbar, are the only ones who sell chemicals in Australia . Its quite difficult to get your head around the Kodak and Fuji chemicals, and when I do, I find no one sells them all. For someone like me Tetenal makes it easy, but I don't know if I am that happy with the combined, Bleach/fixer. But I will give it a go.
I notice Fuji seems to make an ideal kit, the Fuji C41 Film X-Press kit, but it is not available here. One retailer in the States said there is a big increase in small volume C41 processing. If someone sold the Fuji kit I'm sure people would buy it in favour of Tetenal.
Can the C41 community tell me how you handle C41 in Aust, where you get the chemicals, and which ones you use?

 

[markbarendt]

It can be confusing.

I started with Trebla's 55FP475 kit but I'm now buying the individual parts.

I but directly from Mini-Lab supply houses.

Found these guys with google Dead Link Removed

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

Go with the Tetenal. It's all good, good, good. Don't believe the hype about not combining bleach and fix. Uncle Kodak isn't the only artist on the bill. I can highly recommend Tetenal. I previously used Agfa.

 

[frontdrive34]

I've used several Tetenal C41 kits and processed a couple of hundred rolls of 120 and 135 with them. It is all nice and easy. Where 1 litre kit states it will do 12 - 16 rolls I've worked each 1 litre kit well past the 30 roll mark.

I sometimes would like to buy in bulk but it is all too confusing. If someone told me product names, codes and an Australian source I'd possibly go that way. I do find being able to consistently buy a Tetenal kit hit and miss. If you see them buy them!

 

[w9cae]

Interesting views of direction. I recently bought the Tetenal C-41 kit. It was a tad bit cryptic in the instructions. Possibly why my film did not develop.

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

What do you think went wrong?

 

[w9cae]

Unfortunately I could not find a thermometer that would give me a good reading. So I feel it was temperature, which we all know is critical in colour.

 

[Andrew K]

C41 temperature is critical - to +/- 1 to 1.5C - so is time...

You can overdevelop a little - all you get is an increase in dye build up and a bit of a color shift..

If you were 2C under temp and developed for the normal time you should still have gotten negatives that were printable - not easy, but printable..

I used to process C41 (and C22) comercially - have done it in deep tanks, dip/dunk, jobo and auto processors...

The trick is try to keep the temperatures of all baths within a couple of degrees of each other..and keep your time consistant...

 

[Anthony Lewis]

Guys,

Thanks for the quick replies. As I have bought the Tetenal kit, I will use it with confidence, as it gets good reviews.
Mark, I had not heard of 'i-photo' before. Thanks for that tip. After looking on their website, it appears they have all the chemicals and I will definitely be giving them a go - its just the sort of answer I was after.
I sent an email to Vanbar sales, suggesting they sell the Fuji Kit. They sort of gave a positive response, so it will be interesting if this appears in their stores in coming months.
Thanks everyone for your help. I have found that the only real expensive part of 4X5 was the cost of commercial colour processing. The cost of the stock is not too bad, so I'm wanting to do C41 myself. I had my Jobo CPP2 fully re-conditioned in Germany, at great expense, so it is now up to the standard for colour.

 

[Anthony Lewis]

Finally processed my first batch of 4X5 in Tetenal. First time I have processed colour as well. It has actually worked out very well and I am very happy with Tetenal.

I got a processing mark on one film - a good shot too! I did not pre wash. Is it best to pre-wash?

Also after the Stabiliser I just took them out of the drum and hung them up to dry. It appears to me that I should give the film another thorough rinse before drying. I had a few water marks on a few sheets and after another wash and a dry, it appeared to fix the problem.Is this correct and what do others do?

Overall processing colour was quite easy and when I sort out a couple of minor issues, then 'Vision whatever' will not be getting my money anymore.

 

[frontdrive34]

Tetenal directions don't say anything about pre wash and I have never done one. Why add another bath to control?

I hope you are not washing again after the stabiliser? You need the stabiliser to dry on the film. It is there to prevent mould/fungus growing on the film over time.

 

[RobertV]

I hope you are not washing again after the stabiliser? You need the stabiliser to dry on the film. It is there to prevent mould/fungus growing on the film over time.

Not only to prevent fungus on the film but mainly to prevent that the not used color stabilizers are going into a de-stabilizers.

Pre-soak you can do to have a quicker warm up to 37,8C of the film drum. The C41 dev. temperature is pretty critical in the right temperature and time (3:15 minutes).

 

[Andrew K]

How did you process your 5x4? Did you use a Jobo drum? If you are doing rotation processing then you need to use a pre-wash. I was taught this may years ago by a former sales rep for the Jobo distribtors. He told me the single biggest mistake people make is not pre-washing for 5 minutes before development.

I've always used a pre-wash with my Jobo drums, and have never had any processing marks using any format film from 110 to 5x4

As for stabilizer marks - this can happen even with machine processing. We used to use film cleaner to clean the odd stab mark we got on our films. I can't remember the cause, but I know from experience using a drying cabinet and warm air helps avoid drying marks

 

[RobertV]

The cause is mainly the (tap-) water quality. If you have hard water (dH > 12 ) you can have this. Use a Brita (TM) filter which takes away Kat- Anions and have a Carbon fine filter. I agree with the pre-soak for C41. It can also eliminates a lot of problems. 3-5 minutes is sufficient. I am using a Jobo CPA-2 (with elevator) in 35mm and roll film development. Drum 2523, 270ml as minimum for 2x 135-36 or 2x 120 roll films. C41 dev. F position, Blix (or Bleach/Fix) P position for agitation. I have always very clean negatives. Kit: Amaloco C41 in the past. Actual: Rollei Digibase C41, in fact a small Fuji Hunt C41 set.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Anthony Lewis]

Guys / Girls, thanks for all your replies. I have attached two shots - my first colour processing. The Anzac Bridge shot had the processing marks in the top right quarter. Photoshop fixed it, but you can see slight uneveness in the sky in this area. I will be doing a pre-wash in future.

I had a few drip drying marks left in a few shots. I took the sheets straight from the drum and hung them to dry. I obviously need to squeegee. This may be a very basic question, but what (or how) do you all use to squeegee???

Thanks for all your help so far, and I found colour to be just as easy as B&W, and above all it won't be costing me a fortune. Tetenal looks fine to me!

The Anzac bridge shot was taken with the 47mm Schnieder lens. Extreme wide angle, and there is a little flair from a light extreme left of shot, about the middle. The exposure was about 13 minutes - this includes a lot of guess work, as the light at this time of day is changing quickly, and in the end one has to guess reciprocity failure. The cobweb was taken with a 240mm Fuji A lens, with a lot of bellows extension - I compensated 1 stop for extension and am happy with this guess work, as well. I think the message here is that film is actually very easy. Guess work still produces pretty good results - a message for those who think film is difficult! I can post other shots if you want?

 

[w9cae]

Ok guys today SMBooth & myself gave the Tetenal kit anther try with excellent results. We used a JoBo regulated temperature tank & the pre heat rinse suggested here on APUG.

 

[Athiril]

I'm using minilab chems in a paterson hand tank with excellent results. C-41, E-6 and ECN-2.

 

[OldBikerPete]

I have been using Jobo CPE-2 and home-grown chemicals on 5x4 C-41 for a few years now and have enough ingredients to keep me going for a while - especially developer.
However JDPhotochem Canada has gone belly-up and I don't know where to get ingredients any more. Vanbar have some but I'm thinking.
Are there enough interested in C-41 here to group buy minilab chems. and split them among us - for bleach, fix and stabiliser - ie the chemicals which will keep a while on the shelf - everything except the developer? It's likely to be substantially cheaper then Tetenal.

Peter.

PS I have always pre-washed at 100F for 5 minutes in the CPE-2. Gelatin - even modern emulsions swell slightly, opening pores on wetting and I have always believed that the first couple of rotations in the CPE-2 do not wet the film evenly. If your first wetting agent is developer, I believe that means that your development will be uneven.

 

[raoul]

Interested - but my main concern in all this is longevity of chems - particularly when opened to take out enough for a single run.

 

[Oxleyroad]

As per Raoul.

 

[OldBikerPete]

Bleach, fix and stabiliser last indefinitely - but not made-up blix. I made up a batch of these 12 months ago and I'm about to re-use them with complete confidence.

Peter.

 

[SMBooth]

Sounds interesting at this point, what do "we" do for developer. Can it be brought in smaller volumes?

 

[Athiril]

Sounds interesting at this point, what do "we" do for developer. Can it be brought in smaller volumes?

10L of Flexicolor LORR replenisher is $46 from Vanbar, its about 280 rolls worth of replenishment. Vanbar should be adding LORR starter to their site soon too since a friend is special ordering it.

If you want just 1L of working solution, come see me

 

[Athiril]

I have been using Jobo CPE-2 and home-grown chemicals on 5x4 C-41 for a few years now and have enough ingredients to keep me going for a while - especially developer.
However JDPhotochem Canada has gone belly-up and I don't know where to get ingredients any more. Vanbar have some but I'm thinking.
Are there enough interested in C-41 here to group buy minilab chems. and split them among us - for bleach, fix and stabiliser - ie the chemicals which will keep a while on the shelf - everything except the developer? It's likely to be substantially cheaper then Tetenal.

Peter.

PS I have always pre-washed at 100F for 5 minutes in the CPE-2. Gelatin - even modern emulsions swell slightly, opening pores on wetting and I have always believed that the first couple of rotations in the CPE-2 do not wet the film evenly. If your first wetting agent is developer, I believe that means that your development will be uneven.

I've got 200L worth or so, they are in small quantities enough to not need to group buy from vanbar.

Use E-6 fixer from Vanbar, it is $6 for 10L worth, it's dilution is 1+9. Bleach is pricier. There are several other sites other than Vanbar for chems in Australia that I know of.

The only thing needing group buying from Vanbar would be bleach if you want C-41 bleach (which I'm using atm). There are alternatives though.

 

[Athiril]

Interested - but my main concern in all this is longevity of chems - particularly when opened to take out enough for a single run.

Opened but unused Tetenal concentrates last a very long time, they lasted over a year.

Concentrates last from my experience (as long as you don't allow contamination back in - if you pour too much out, don't pour it back in the bottle). Developer parts are acidic and preserved. Working solution is what will go off given the chance, though it still lasts a good amount of time.

Kodak concentrates - I received expired (in 2005) E-6 colour developer, still like new.