Backpacking LF? I wish they made _____

photobackpacker · Mar 27, 2005

I currently pack a Linhof Master Technika with 5 lenses and up to 24 filmholders. This is my "unlimited pack" where I will be rapelling down steep terrain and/or covering alot of territory where returning to the car is not a happy prospect. By the time I have all of the gear together, I am easily pushing 50lbs.

I have a growing "wish" list and am curious to hear what others come up with and how they drop weight (in their packs.)

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 27, 2005

Well, you can cut the bulk in half by carrying Grafmatics instead of conventional filmholders. Arguably, they hold the film flatter than conventional holders as well. Readyloads or Quickloads will reduce weight for the amount of film you're carrying, if the film you want is available in that form.

Check out Kerry Thalmann's website. He has a lot of info on backpacking with LF.

I have a Technika that I've often taken on day hikes, but if I want to go really light, I'll carry my Gowland 4x5" with a small tripod and a few really small lenses, all of which take small filters and shades. Usually I use the Gowland when I'm carrying another camera. For instance, I'll bring my 35mm camera and 600/4.5 for birds and carry the Gowland for landscapes and macro, or I might travel with a folding medium format camera for handheld shots and the Gowland for tripod shots.

glbeas · Mar 27, 2005

Look into getting some Grafmatics, you can carry twice the film in half or less the space, or the 24 frames in four grafmatics.

Now unless you have way too much money and can afford more cameras the next suggestion is less practical, Get a lighter camera! Shen Hao or Anba Ikeda weighs in under 4 lbs.

Doing landscapes mostly? I only carry three lenses, a 150, 90 and a 65. I never bother with anything longer. (in the 4x5 kit that is) My backpack is pretty light without the tripod slung on it. I've never weighed it but I can hold it with one finger at arms length.

Nick Zentena · Mar 27, 2005

The only Shen Hao that is less then 4lbs is the non-folding one. At least I think that's the only one. It's also the one that supposedly infringes the Ebony patents and isn't imported into North America. With only 190mm of bellows it'll also force a person to cut down on lenses.

The rest of the Shen Hao cameras tend to be heavier then average or at least no less then average.

If trip is a multi-day one why not reload at night? Or are you shooting 48 frames in one day?

photobackpacker · Mar 27, 2005

Grafmatics are new to me. I worry about the dust factor with them. Are they any better/worse than well maintained traditional film holders?

I love my Technika and would probably sacrifice weight elsewhere. The Master has the ability to handle down to 45mm wide angle without a bag bellows and is so solid, it will take abuse that would render other cameras inop. Mine weighs in at 5 lbs, 15 oz (with tripod quick disconnect in place) which is acceptable.

What backpacks do you use? Are the comfortable/easy to use? Do they protect your equipment from bumps, thumps, dust, humidity?

MurrayMinchin · Mar 27, 2005

Hi Blaughn,

My pack, including a 9 pound tripod weighs in at 30 pounds.The pack contains:
Wista 4x5 field camera and camera case
210 & 120mm lenses
spotmeter & spare battery
6 film holders
cable release
spirit level
ruler with bellows extension factors marked on it
pens & pencils
glassine envelopes for writing exp/dev/subject info on
small scissors for cutting notches in glassine for N, +1, -1, etc
box of film
empty film box for exposed negatives
changing bag (turned inside out so nylon is inside, lint shedding fabric is outside)
filters and holder
lens tissue
focusing cloth
big rain poncho for me and the pack, and to put down first on mucky ground
small rain poncho to go over camera (neck gets snapped around & over lens)
and that's it I think...I could probably save more weight on the tripod, but we have become very attached...

Murray

Oh, and it all goes into an "expedition" sized packsack that loads from the top and has a zipper all the way down the side.

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 27, 2005

Grafmatics are no better or worse than regular filmholders in terms of dust. Readyload/Quickload offers an improvement over filmholders for dust, but at greater cost per sheet and with reduced choice of film types.

Troy Ammons · Mar 27, 2005

Wow that is way too much weight. i have a sinar that weighs a ton too. Something like a 4x5 p+S would be better. Also quickloads would lighten that load a bit too, unfortunately they lighten your wallet.

Even better yet is to pack a Mamiya 7 and 3-4 lenses. Also lighten your wallet a lot more (big $$$), but I really like it. I just picked one up last week. Everything is a lot lighter than 4x5 especially the film. 5 rolls of 220 probably weighs less than 2 4x5 film holders. Thats 100 shots. No tilt though, but I just took some 80mm photos at F11 and I was surprised at the DOF. Its pretty deep. Also you can handhold it really slow, IE no tripod, so its even lighter yet.

My contention for a couple of years was (mostly a guess) that the Mamiya 7 probably captured just as much detail as a 4x5. With 4x5 you are battling film flatness and especially wind on your bellows if you are high up. Also LF lenses are not as sharp. I have used a few that were as good as a Pentax 67, but below a Mamiya 7. Most M7 lenses resolve 100-120 lp/mm in the center and they are sharp WO. Thats 35mm lens territory.

I was shooting 4x5 in the mountains last year and I could not keep my Sinar still. The winds were gusting pretty good. I ended up with a foot hoop, and pressing down on the works and waiting on a lull. A real PIA and i was only using a 150mm lens, so my extension was not that long.

I am still comparing the Mamiya 7 to a Pentax 67, RB67 and 4x5. It definitely beats the P67 and RB 67. As far as 4x5 thats a tough call. Its close. To get the same size file, i can scan a 4x5 at 2000 dpi and its clean. 6x7 has to be scanned at around 3300 dpi to match that size. BTW I am scanning with a drum scanner.

If I am satisfied after a few more weeks, the next time I am hiking its going to be a M7 and a monopod in my pack.

Also I might consider a stripped down Sinar with two lenses similar to a Sinar handy with minor tilt and shift for short strolls.

I really do like 4x5, but the Mamiya 7 is almost like a 6x7 point and shoot. The auto aperture mode is nice and fairly accurate.

Dave Parker · Mar 27, 2005

I spend alot of time in Glacier, Yellowstone, the Bob Marshall and a host of other wild areas in Montana, and there is no way I would take my RB over my 4 x 5 cameras, I find with the exhibition type prints I do of the parks, that the medium format, even though good is still not up to the detail of the 4x5 and this year, I will be adding a 8 x 10 to my backpack.

There are several alternatives out there to the heavy Linhofs and Graphics, you just need to shop around, I also only carry about 6 holders, a darkbag, and change film out as needed, when on a backpacking trip, this helps lighten the load quite a bit.

Dave

gchpaco · Mar 27, 2005

My backpack is pretty light. My first thought is "that's a lot of film holders". The Ready/Quickload system would be lighter in the amount that you're shooting, although that may not be available to you due to film choice. Failing that, bringing a changing bag, a box, and only a few of them might be lighter.

Also, I shoot using a Bender 4x5, which is quite light; your Master Technika is I think significantly heavier. Benders are a lot of effort to make, but I think there are some lightweight commercial cameras that are in the Bender's weight range that might work.

L Gebhardt · Mar 27, 2005

Graphmatics don't save on weight, only bulk. A Graphmatic weighs the same as three film holders, but only takes up the space of two. I don't have any more dust with them than regular holders. To save weight you will need to use Quickloads or Readyloads.

As mentioned above the Shen Hao will also not save you any weight, in fact it may weigh more.

I would drop a lens or two from the system, or get slower lenses. If you have a f/5.6 lens, try getting an f/8 or slower. For long lenses this usually works fine.

smieglitz · Mar 27, 2005

You could switch to a convertible lens and probably eliminate the need to carry 3 of the standard lenses you now haul around. While the quality of convertibles varies I've heard very good things about the new Cooke (series XVa IIRC) lens. (And very bad things about Gundlach lenses. Symmars in between.) I'd also go with quickloads/readyloads as others have suggested or take along a changing tent, a couple empty film boxes, and eliminate the need for so many filmholders. The changing tent and a limited number of holders would involve a little more work, but would greatly reduce the weight you would be carrying. Also, you might try to pick up some used Mido holders instead of conventional ones if you don't like the film limitations imposed by Readyload and Quickload holders.

photobackpacker · Mar 27, 2005

I think the film holders are the answer. I just weighed them and the 20 account for weight equal to my Gitzo 1349 with linhof head! I think, on long treks at least, that I will need to go with the readyloads.... I will also lose weight in my wallet!

jbj · Mar 27, 2005

Here's what I use for 4x5/backpacking:

Tripod/ head/quick release < 5 lbs. (bogen 3001/484Rc)
Crown graphic stripped down/135mm Xenar ~ 3-3.5 lbs?
6 cut film holders+changing bag/spot meter
-Try to use something that serves double-duty for a darkcloth (rain shell or t-shirt).
-Use a single lens and be creative

All this fits in my backpack (Granite Gear 5500 cu. in.) which I use for all occasions: short dayhikes to a couple weeks.

As others have suggested, get a lightweight changing bag and carry less film holders, I'm not sure what brand mine is but some generic one I bought locally. It holds 3 film holders and two boxes with very little room to spare (4x5").

My dream is to take the Calumet green monster 8x10, but that sucker alone fills the bag when I add holders and it requires a big-ass tripod too! Someday I'll figure out how to do extended trips with the 8x10!

brent8927 · Mar 27, 2005

I think all you need is a good strong Alaskan Husky... or maybe mountain goat- it would sure handle those steep situations better... but it might chew on your equipment...

On a more serious note, you may already know this, but it's always better (at least in my opinion) to put the heavier items as close to your back as possible when they're in the packpack; this way they don't pull back on your shoulders as much. You can see this really obviously when you place a tripod down the back of a Lowepro Trekker backpack versus the side- where it's closer to your back. Obviously the pack will weigh the same but because of the better weight distribution it wont make you feel like you're tipping over backwards as much.

I think most people here would agree that this is a bad thing; it's much better to fall forward and be crushed and suffocated by your camera gear than to fall backwards and crush it! Seriously...

MurrayMinchin · Mar 27, 2005

Actually Yaks are the way to go...any critter that can haul gear to base camp at Everest, can survive the Monsoons and Himalayan winters, AND it's milk can be fermented is #1 in my books!

Murray

harleygsb · Mar 28, 2005

My backpacking kit pretty much mirrors Kerry Thalmann's. Toho camera, 3 lenses (80,150, 240), about 80 quickloads, Gitzo 1127 with Acratech ballhead, filters QL holder, lightweight hood, Pentax digital spot. I use a daypack to carry it. Whole kits weighs about 18 pounds. That is about as light as I can get it.

Deckled Edge · Mar 28, 2005

I have done a great deal of extended backpacking on the John Muir and Pacific Crest trails with my 8x10 Deardorff. The key is you have to become an excellent minimalist--both photographically and life-support. I carry few holders, but lots of film. I leave the Gossen spot at home in favor of a tiny meter. I change film under the poncho, under the bivvy sack. I eat noodles and drink water where I find it. Small lenses in barrels. Carbon fiber tripod with a big ball head.
Just remember: safety first, photography second. The wilderness can be very wild, and you can't hone your survival skills and photography skills at the same time. Don't bite off more than you are ready to chew, and don't expect to come back with "Monolith" from every excursion.
On the other hand, Lake Ediza at dawn is breathtaking.

photobackpacker · Mar 28, 2005

brent8927 said:
I think most people here would agree that this is a bad thing; it's much better to fall forward and be crushed and suffocated by your camera gear than to fall backwards and crush it! Seriously...

This has happened - on a small scale and the only thing broken was a compass. I am curious, though, how do all of you provide crush protection for your lenses? When you consider the cost of one of these jewels, just tossing them into a backpack isn't an option.

I hand made soft boxes that encase them in 1/2" foam. What do all of you (y'all for my southern kin) use?

MurrayMinchin · Mar 28, 2005

Hi Blaughn,

My lenses (Schneider's) came in nice beefy cardboard boxes, so I keep them in there still. It adds a bit of weight, but the protection from dust, sand, rain, snow, and temperature extremes more than makes up for it.

Murray

ronlamarsh · Mar 29, 2005

I usually go on extended trips in Mt Rainier park, Pacific crest etc. I wouldn't trade my linhof Tech III for anything lighter? saving 1 or 2 pounds isn't that important. I agreee with the guy that carries his 8x10 Deardorf become a minimalist. I remember reading somewhere that St Ansel would regularly take forays with 1 or 2 film holders and a single lens! Me I carry a grafmatic and 2 extra film holders a 180mm and a 90mm lens cable release and single filter and lens hood(rubber) light meter paper and pen and that's it. Depending on where I go I may substitue a 240mm lens for the 180. I have a small light hardcase that holds lens's meter film holders etc. that then goes into my pack. I have to save room for all the freeze dried food and warm clothing; having had a rather sary brush with hypothermia in the first week of Sept I never subsittue camera gear for saftey.

roteague · Mar 29, 2005

blaughn said:
I think the film holders are the answer.

That's why I primarily use Fuji QuickLoads. Then again, I primarily only shoot Velvia.

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