Anyone here using graded papers?

[waynecrider]

Not having used graded papers, I'm interested in your thoughts as to specific brands you have used. What paper/developer combo would you suggest for warm and cold prints?

 

[Donald Miller]

I use JandC Nuance (Adox) almost exclusively for my fine prints. That paper has given me the best print tonality and deepest dmax of any paper that I have tested. I develop this paper in the MAS Amidol formula.

I have used Oriental graded which in my experience was better then the Oriental VC. It is, however, not up to par with the Nuance paper.

I have no current warmtone graded favorite. The warmtone paper that I continue to appreciate is another JandC paper (PW Classic). It however is a VC material.

These two images are made on these two papers.

 

[ann]

i use oriental seagull with LPD for about 90% of my work. rarely use a warmtone paper, and don't even know if they come in a graded version.

i will have to give Donald's recommendation a try and get some paper from jandc, as i like very cold tones .

 

[eddym]

Not having used graded papers, I'm interested in your thoughts as to specific brands you have used. What paper/developer combo would you suggest for warm and cold prints?

I've been using Ilford Galerie as my standard paper for many years, and I process it in Zone VI Print developer. I would consider its tone to be neutral with just a slight warming after selenium toning.

Recently I've started using Bergger CB Art Warm Tone, and just love it. I'm still developing it in the Zone VI, but would like to try some other developers.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Ilford Galerie in Neutol WA. Gives an image color compatible with Light Impressions' Bright White Westminster board without a need for toning.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Your best bet is to get some 25-sheet packs of the various premium graded papers and make some reference prints. They're all quite capable.

I've been using J&C Nuance under various labels for some years (Maco/Cachet Expo RF, J&C Classic Exposition, also Efke Emaks graded). It responds well to amidol, water bath, and toning.

Oriental is also excellent. Gallerie has the brightest base of any paper out there, if that appeals to you.

 

[George Papantoniou]

Galerie, Bergger CB and NB, Oriental, Fortezo, Fomatone Classic, Kentona, are the current choices (forgive me if I have forgotten some).

Record-Rapid, Brovira, Elite, Ektalure, Oriental (the good one) are the obsolete classics.

The ones in red are (were) the warm-toned (chlorobromide) ones.

 

[fhovie]

I find that perfecting a skill (for me) involves normalizing on materials that suit my process to acheive the best outcome. I keep my print process the same and vary my film choice and development process to make what I envision from my standard printing process (not withstanding dodging, burning or water bath techniques). So I use Forte Fortezo Grade 2 90% of the time. It is likely not the Zeiss of papers but I do get consistantly good results regardless of occasional minor inconsistancies in paper speed that I have noted from batch to batch. It tones well and responds well to a variety of developers with pyro negs with a DR of 1.15 to 1.3.

My developer of choice is in the formulas section:
Suzuki DS–14 Modified, (Neutral Black Tone Paper Developer)

Triethanolamine (heated to 220 deg. F)---------350 ml
Ascorbic Acid----------------------------------70 grams
Phenidone -------------------------------------2.5 grams
Dissolve all dry ingredients
Add Triethanolamine and mix to make-----------500 ml

To make 1 liter of working developer, take 50 ml of DS-14 Modified, add 300ml water at 125 deg. F, 12 grams sulfite and 30 grams carbonate, 1 gram KBr and mix. Then add cold water to make 1 liter.

Add 0.2% Benzotriazole as needed to achieve desired tone

Because this may be the least toxic and a cheap to make developer, I use this formula. Cost per tray is pennies and when you want to get good at something you need to be able to do a lot of it. Notwithstanding, I get 40 or more 8x10 per liter with a shelf live on the working solution of 3 weeks in a full bottle. I get black densities that are almost as black as amidol - but colder in tone. Shelf life of the stock solution is many years.

The reason I chose this process over others is that if you have a negative that perfecly expresses what you were envisioning, it is very easy to print and the graded papers have a sparkle that in my perception are missing on VC papers. I use a lot of Cheap! VC Resin paper for proofing - I use it to evaluate negatives. The VC Resin papers are quick and easy and give you a good idea of what the negative can do but is not a great finished product for a great image.

Using graded paper forces you to make great negatives - I have other grades and some VC just in case - but my process is to use Graded paper.

 

[Paul Howell]

I use JandC Nuance (Adox) almost exclusively for my fine prints.

Donald do you order paper in the summer? I did not get my order in for the Spring and I have been reluctant to order either paper or film in the heqat of the Summer.

 

[Rob Skeoch]

I've been using Ilford Galerie since switching to a cold head enlarger from a colour head with dial in filters. I've always loved the look of the paper.
-rob skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com

 

[dancqu]

Not having used graded papers,...

Not having done so you may be unaware of the
higher level of darkroom lighting possible when
using graded papers. More than a little
brighter at that. Safe light color is
yellow to orangish yellow. Dan

 

[waynecrider]

I find that perfecting a skill (for me) involves normalizing on materials that suit my process to acheive the best outcome. I keep my print process the same and vary my film choice and development process to make what I envision from my standard printing process (not withstanding dodging, burning or water bath techniques). So I use Forte Fortezo Grade 2 90% of the time. It is likely not the Zeiss of papers but I do get consistantly good results regardless of occasional minor inconsistancies in paper speed that I have noted from batch to batch. It tones well and responds well to a variety of developers with pyro negs with a DR of 1.15 to 1.3.

My developer of choice is in the formulas section:
Suzuki DS–14 Modified, (Neutral Black Tone Paper Developer)

Triethanolamine (heated to 220 deg. F)---------350 ml
Ascorbic Acid----------------------------------70 grams
Phenidone -------------------------------------2.5 grams
Dissolve all dry ingredients
Add Triethanolamine and mix to make-----------500 ml

To make 1 liter of working developer, take 50 ml of DS-14 Modified, add 300ml water at 125 deg. F, 12 grams sulfite and 30 grams carbonate, 1 gram KBr and mix. Then add cold water to make 1 liter.

Add 0.2% Benzotriazole as needed to achieve desired tone

Because this may be the least toxic and a cheap to make developer, I use this formula. Cost per tray is pennies and when you want to get good at something you need to be able to do a lot of it. Notwithstanding, I get 40 or more 8x10 per liter with a shelf live on the working solution of 3 weeks in a full bottle. I get black densities that are almost as black as amidol - but colder in tone. Shelf life of the stock solution is many years.

The reason I chose this process over others is that if you have a negative that perfecly expresses what you were envisioning, it is very easy to print and the graded papers have a sparkle that in my perception are missing on VC papers. I use a lot of Cheap! VC Resin paper for proofing - I use it to evaluate negatives. The VC Resin papers are quick and easy and give you a good idea of what the negative can do but is not a great finished product for a great image.

Using graded paper forces you to make great negatives - I have other grades and some VC just in case - but my process is to use Graded paper.

Interesting, and thanks for yours and others remarks.

This developer seems sort of intensive compared to other products. How does it compare to other developers you have used besides Amidol? Is there that much of a difference with it over other products?

 

[waynecrider]

Not having done so you may be unaware of the
higher level of darkroom lighting possible when
using graded papers. More than a little
brighter at that. Safe light color is
yellow to orangish yellow. Dan

Really. Does the safelight colors apply to all the graded paper or depend on brand?

 

[dancqu]

Really. Does the safelight colors apply to all the
graded paper or depend on brand?

Likely a COLOR safe for one brand will be safe for
all. Graded papers are blue only sensitive. Graded or
VC, paper speeds vary. An INTENSITY of light near the
upper limit for a slow VC or Graded paper may be too
much for higher speed papers. The usual darkroom
filters have no sudden cut off wave lengths. Dan

 

[Mike A]

Kentmere Bromide all grades from freestyle. It responds very simular to AZO when using amidol formulas, I use it for contact printing exclusively.

Mike

 

[George Papantoniou]

Kentmere Bromide all grades from freestyle. It responds very simular to AZO when using amidol formulas, I use it for contact printing exclusively.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I forgot Bromide by Kentmere (and Bromofort, I think, by Forte). Both Neutral toned, those ones.

 

[fhovie]

Intensive is relative - plunk down a lot of dollars for a container of something someone else made and use it up in a month or for the same money buy some powder and some fluid and mix up a years supply for the cost of a months supply of commercial stuff. The process is easier than making biscuits and the results are at least as good as Dektol - perhaps even better. The really good news is that you can buy the citric acid at Tader Joes and the developer is safer for your skin, your health and the water treatment plant than most any other developer for paper. When fresh, I see 80% of complete devlopment on FB paper within the first 20 seconds and complete development on RC paper in 20 seconds. I have a gallon of AGFA concentrate sitting here going bad because I don't want to put my paws in it. (Of course - I usually wear gloves anyway)


This developer seems sort of intensive compared to other products. How does it compare to other developers you have used besides Amidol? Is there that much of a difference with it over other products?

 

[Ole]

Galerie, Bergger CB and NB, Oriental, Fortezo, Fomatone Classic, Kentona, are the current choices (forgive me if I have forgotten some).

Record-Rapid, Brovira, Elite, Ektalure, Oriental (the good one) are the obsolete classics.

The ones in red are (were) the warm-toned (chlorobromide) ones.

That just about matches my list too. Add in some packs of Ilfospeed, and Bergger Art Classic "Silver Supreme" which is one of my favorites for some negatives (but impossible for others).

 

[waynecrider]

Intensive is relative - plunk down a lot of dollars for a container of something someone else made and use it up in a month or for the same money buy some powder and some fluid and mix up a years supply for the cost of a months supply of commercial stuff. The process is easier than making biscuits and the results are at least as good as Dektol - perhaps even better. The really good news is that you can buy the citric acid at Tader Joes and the developer is safer for your skin, your health and the water treatment plant than most any other developer for paper. When fresh, I see 80% of complete devlopment on FB paper within the first 20 seconds and complete development on RC paper in 20 seconds. I have a gallon of AGFA concentrate sitting here going bad because I don't want to put my paws in it. (Of course - I usually wear gloves anyway)

Ok, Well now I want to try it. Where do you get your chemicals?

 

[Ryuji]

This developer seems sort of intensive compared to other products. How does it compare to other developers you have used besides Amidol? Is there that much of a difference with it over other products?

If the mixing process is too much for you, there is an option to buy it pre-mixed. It's supplied in 1+9 concentrate and it keeps long in closed containers.

I use Tektol Standard all the time for slightly warmer side of neutral black. If you prefer cooler side, try Tektol Neutral. If you want somewhere in the middle, mix them.

The black density is as good as the particular paper can get in any print developer. It's pretty optimized for Dmax as well as toner acceptance, the latter particular so with Tektol Standard.

 

[catem]

I use Kentmere Kentona with Agfa Neutol NE and WA. I also have a little Art Classic left that I ration very carefully - both can get a very pleasing warm tone, especially with WA, Kentona is known to work well with low-key photos but I like the high-key effect with it very much aswell.

Cate

 

[waynecrider]

I use Kentmere Kentona with Agfa Neutol NE and WA. I also have a little Art Classic left that I ration very carefully - both can get a very pleasing warm tone, especially with WA, Kentona is known to work well with low-key photos but I like the high-key effect with it very much aswell.

Cate

This thread started because of an article I read and picture I saw in a British mag on Ketona. I now have some Oriental and look forward to getting some Ketona.

 

[Travis Nunn]

I use graded papers for lith prints, but that's about it. I use Forte Fortezo Grade 3 and I still have a box and a half of Kentmere Art Classic.

 

[donbga]

Kentmere Bromide all grades from freestyle. It responds very simular to AZO when using amidol formulas, I use it for contact printing exclusively.

Mike

Mike,

Are you suggesting that Kentmere Bromide responds to Amidol - water bath development like AZO? And what grade(s) are you using? Any grade 4 or 0 available?

 

[Alex Hawley]

Mike,

Are you suggesting that Kentmere Bromide responds to Amidol - water bath development like AZO? And what grade(s) are you using? Any grade 4 or 0 available?

Yes, it does Don. I recently tested 25 sheet packages of Grade 2 and Grade 3 Kentmere. Its good stuff. However, I just got done with my first prints using JandC Nuance graded. I have to say, I like it even better than the Kentmere.