Any Grade 5 Paper Exist?

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Jon Shiu

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Hello, I need to print a very thin pyro developed neg and it is too muddy when printed on a grade 4 or ilford multigrade... So, the question is, does anyone make a grade 5 fiber based paper anymore and where can I buy it?

Thanks,

Jon
 

Peter Schrager

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Grade 5

Jon-I don't believe that anyone makes agrade 5 anymore. I have almost a full box of Oriental F.B. Glossy in grade 5. It's been kept in the deep freezer since I bought it and you're welcome to it. PM me if you are interested
Peter
 

Loose Gravel

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I've always found grade 5 to be twitchy at best. Some of the VC papers with a strong blue filter goes pretty high. Project through a #47 tri color blue. You might want to mask, or make a digital neg, or intensify the neg with toner, if you can't reshoot it.
 

skahde

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Jon said:
Hello, I need to print a very thin pyro developed neg and it is too muddy when printed on a grade 4 or ilford multigrade... So, the question is, does anyone make a grade 5 fiber based paper anymore and where can I buy it?
Jon

You could try a twobath. I did some tests recentlly and this seems just the right application for it. Develope in a developer which preferently brings in the deep tones like Moersch Catechol or Agfa 120 (pyro/hydrochinon, no metol/phenidon) until they are nearly ok and change to a softworking developer to finish the higlights. Start with a higher dilution of the soft one. If you have a print with reasonable dark tones but muddy highlights you could bleach and redevelope it in a hardworking developer as above. This will change the tone, though, and may get quite brownish/red. I was able to get quite a remarkable increase in contrast this way. Unfortunately I was trying to achieve the opposite. Lesson learned.

Formulas for starters are here http://www.jackspcs.com/wtr.htm but you can as well use Moersch Catechol as the first bath and Neutol WA, Selectol Soft, etc. as the second and take the bleach from a Sepia Toner.

Both are easy to do and straight forward methods. I recommend you try it.

best of luck

Stefan
 

Aggie

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skahde said:
You could try a twobath. I did some tests recentlly and this seems just the right application for it. Develope in a developer which preferently brings in the deep tones like Moersch Catechol or Agfa 120 (pyro/hydrochinon, no metol/phenidon) until they are nearly ok and change to a softworking developer to finish the higlights. Start with a higher dilution of the soft one. If you have a print with reasonable dark tones but muddy highlights you could bleach and redevelope it in a hardworking developer as above. This will change the tone, though, and may get quite brownish/red. I was able to get quite a remarkable increase in contrast this way. Unfortunately I was trying to achieve the opposite. Lesson learned.

Formulas for starters are here http://www.jackspcs.com/wtr.htm but you can as well use Moersch Catechol as the first bath and Neutol WA, Selectol Soft, etc. as the second and take the bleach from a Sepia Toner.

Both are easy to do and straight forward methods. I recommend you try it.

best of luck

Stefan
Les McLean also goes into great detail about this in his book. You missed his workshop here in the bay area last Nov. He will be in the Dallas area this Nov. teaching them exactly this kind of thing. If you are able to go, I would highly suggest attending his workshop.
 

Les McLean

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Aggie said:
Les McLean also goes into great detail about this in his book. You missed his workshop here in the bay area last Nov. He will be in the Dallas area this Nov. teaching them exactly this kind of thing. If you are able to go, I would highly suggest attending his workshop.


Thanks for the mention Aggie but Lee and I have agrred to hold back the Dallas gig until the spring of next year when I'll be in Philadelphia on other business.

With regard to the problem of printing a thin negative you could try the following techniques:

Use the highest contrast paper grade thet you have but add a small quantity of Part B Lith developer which will increase the contrast of the developer. Start by adding 50ml to 2 litres working dev.

You could also try a method that I use when faced with this problem. Make a test strip again using the highest paper grade you have and decide on an exposure that gives you some decent contrast in any area of the print. Reduce that exposure by up to 50% and develop the print until you reach the desired contrast, this may involve a development time of up to 1hour or even more. What you are doing is similar to film exposure when you under expose and over develop to build contrast in the negative. You are likely to fog the white paper base of the border on the print but you will not fog the actual image.

I know that what I have suggested is unconventional but it does work and if you really want a print from the negative it's worth trying. It has already been suggested that you intensify the negative so use that as a starting point.
 
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