Another Ilford post...

VoidoidRamone · Sep 3, 2004

I wasn't sure if anyone has already posted this same info, so I thought I might as well...

-3.) News From Ilford

Ilford Imaging, weighed down by more than £40 million of debt, asked
accountancy firm Grant Thornton to oversee its sale. The group will likely
separate its two businesses: the UK black-and-white films and photographic
paper division, and the Swiss inkjet printing business.

Ilford Imaging USA Inc. is continuing business as usual, President Ward
Phillips said. "We are taking every action and precaution to maintain
ongoing operations with our customers. At the same time, behind the
scenes, we will be working with our related companies in the Ilford group
to improve its performance," he said.

Communications Manager Wendy Erickson said the U.S. firm is solvent, and
plans to go forward with its Photokina exhibit, and booth in PMA 2005.
Ilford USA feels confident of its Swiss supply, and markets some things
from outside sources. Photo paper and related supplies are probably
dependent on the UK parent company finding a buyer, Erickson said.-

this is from the latest Maine Photographic newsletter.

-Grant

jovo · Sep 3, 2004

Yup...it's already been posted. If you listen very carefully, you can hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

jade · Sep 3, 2004

The layoff

According to a post else where, Ilford layed off all R&D and sales and marketing in the B&W company. David Caper, the good tech advisor at Ilford, is also axed. See Ilford forum.

http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/ILFOPRO/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=6

Tom Smith · Sep 3, 2004

Can I clear this up:

Ilford UK = manufacture films and chemicals

Ilford Switzerland = digital stuff I don't really care about

Ilford USA = also make film and chemicals licenced from Ilford UK?

If the last bit is correct, it won't be so bad. But if Ilford USA are only importers.....where are they going to get their film from if it stops being made in the UK?

Sorry if this is really simplistic - I don't understand the politics.

Also - Fuji chromogenic 400 film is made by Ilford for Fuji - is this correct? Does this mean this film is also affected?

Jorge · Sep 3, 2004

Read between the lines, what Ilford USA is saying is that they plan to continue selling supplies for the digital crowd. Well....whopty doo.....

I would think if Ilford UK stops making film that Ilford USA is going to have a hard time supplying it...no?

Those of you who like Ilford, better pull a Michael A Smith. Me, I used PW's ultrafine film, but will not take chances and will start testing J&C's film.

jack · Sep 4, 2004

With regard to the post by Tom Smith ....
UK also manufacture Paper (for both B&W and digital), and pigment ink.
USA do not manufacture - they import from the UK.

With regard to the post from Jade....
UK Sales are still employed (although most of the rep's have gone) and there are still some marketing bods around. R&D...not sure, but probably 99% have gone.

UK production of film and paper is still underway. We are hopeful that someone will come along and buy us (we are officially "for sale" in the financial times!)

Jorge · Sep 4, 2004

Chilean Red said:
UK production of film and paper is still underway. We are hopeful that someone will come along and buy us (we are officially "for sale" in the financial times!)

For how much? you know? or find out?

ann · Sep 4, 2004

this is a quote from Wendy Erickson from Ilord; or rather was with Ilford. this can be found of the Ilord site, under the cafe pro section.

Hey not so fast! Even with the job cuts, ILFORD is alive and well. ILFORD factories are busy making film and inkjet paper- Production is in full swing as usual. Please don't give up on a great 125 year old company- It's the next 125 years that will be most interesting!

Annie · Sep 4, 2004

Doughty Hanson tried to sell Ilford UK quite recently but failed to find a buyer... with a further 30% decline in sales of B&W products in the first 7 months of this year alone, the prospects of a purchaser stepping forward are diminishing daily.

127 · Sep 4, 2004

Annie said:
... with a further 30% decline in sales of B&W products in the first 7 months of this year alone,...

This is something I just don't understand.

If you were to tell me that APS sales had crashed, I'd say of course they have.

Kodak/Fuji 35mm 200asa colour - I'd expect that to be a serious casualty, as people start taking their family snaps on cheap digitals.

But "Auntie Doris" doesn't shoot black and white. If she did it would be C41. She certainly doesn't dev and print it herself. To her film comes in yellow boxes, and there's only one sort. She's never heard of (never mind bought) HP5 or Delta.

The "mass market" of consumers, who are the target are the digital push haven't been Ilford customers since the 1960's.

Ilford's customer base is "us". Anyone shooting bw and printing it themselves is doing it because that's something they WANT to do. Those who just wanted to take photo's have been using colour for 30 years.

Maybe I'm underestimating the influence of the "camera nerd" - the guy who has to have every gadget. He's in the "early adopter" catagory, and has been financing the development of all sorts of bad technology for as long as anyone can remember...

I'd have though Ilford's core market was safe - shows what I know!

Ian

jandc · Sep 4, 2004

127 said:
This is something I just don't understand.

If you were to tell me that APS sales had crashed, I'd say of course they have.
......

The "mass market" of consumers, who are the target are the digital push haven't been Ilford customers since the 1960's.

Ilford's customer base is "us". Anyone shooting bw and printing it themselves is doing it because that's something they WANT to do. Those who just wanted to take photo's have been using colour for 30 years.

Maybe I'm underestimating the influence of the "camera nerd" - the guy who has to have every gadget. He's in the "early adopter" catagory, and has been financing the development of all sorts of bad technology for as long as anyone can remember...

Ian

The black and white market is much more than artistic photographers. We are the minority. Government purchases of traffic surveillance films, aerial films, microfilms etc is a much larger market that has been eroded by digital.

jandc · Sep 4, 2004

jandc said:
The black and white market is much more than artistic photographers. We are the minority. Government purchases of traffic surveillance films, aerial films, microfilms etc is a much larger market that has been eroded by digital.

Also I forgot to mention X-Ray films both medical and industrial

jack · Sep 4, 2004

As for the prospects of a sale, apparently there are some interested parties (don't know who), and they would get quite a good deal - especially with only half the amount of salaries to pay!
Fingers crossed.......

Tom Smith · Sep 4, 2004

Chilean Red - after the sour Sauvignon from the French Ilford Marketing Dept, you're so sweet to pass on such good news. I'll keep my legs crossed too.

FrankB · Sep 5, 2004

ann said:
this is a quote from Wendy Erickson from Ilord; or rather was with Ilford. this can be found of the Ilord site, under the cafe pro section.

Hey not so fast! Even with the job cuts, ILFORD is alive and well. ILFORD factories are busy making film and inkjet paper- Production is in full swing as usual.

Um, what about B&W paper...?

A lot of the discussions on this site and other has centered around the film side of Ilford's business. Any thoughts as to their MGIV and MGWT ranges, both on RC and FB ('cos I'd *really* miss them!

hasselbladuser · Sep 5, 2004

Sales decrease does not necessarily come from selling less film material alone?
What about the people who shoot analog, but then scan their neg's and process everything digital. This means selling less photographic paper and the like.

Jeroen

jack · Sep 5, 2004

Um, what about B&W paper...?

A lot of the discussions on this site and other has centered around the film side of Ilford's business. Any thoughts as to their MGIV and MGWT ranges, both on RC and FB ('cos I'd *really* miss them!

From what I can gather, these products are still being manufactured - although I'm not 100% sure. - I suggest you contact ILFORD sales dept to find out for definite.

Fintan · Sep 5, 2004

Chilean Red said:
As for the prospects of a sale, apparently there are some interested parties (don't know who), and they would get quite a good deal - especially with only half the amount of salaries to pay!
Fingers crossed.......

Fingers crossed indeed. I've emailed Hasselblad suggesting they buy Ilford to ensure their cameras never go hungry. Not as funny as it sounds IMHO it would make sense if a camera manufacturer bought a film / paper /chemical company especially one as great as Ilford.

jandc · Sep 5, 2004

Chilean Red said:
As for the prospects of a sale, apparently there are some interested parties (don't know who), and they would get quite a good deal - especially with only half the amount of salaries to pay!
Fingers crossed.......

I would suspect that if a buyer is found they will end up paying even less in salaries than suggested above. New management will cut all expenses to the bone, which means more layoffs, in order to try and keep the company solvent and recoup their investment. They will immediately look at ways of downsizing the operation to fit the market they pervicve themselves to be in. The other thing they will do is look at each product and determine if it's going to make money. If not, it will not matter how wonderful a product it is, it will be gone.

The one thing guaranteed not to happen is that someone will shell out a lot of money to buy Ilford and keep everything as it was.

Another Ilford post...

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