An equipment dilemma

[DeanC]

I think I need (fun word, need ) a new camera but I'm not sure which way to go so I'm turning to you folks for some advice.

A few years ago I started down the LF path with a used 4x5 off of eBay. This eventually lead me to an 8x10 Canham, contact printing and my selling all of my old 35mm stuff because I never used it anymore. (I was primarily interested in landscapes, who needs 35mm when you've got 8x10?). All was cool for a bit, the 8x10 met all my needs and I didn't miss the smaller format at all. Now, however, things have changed...

I've got a 2 year old and a 6 mos. old at home, and chasing them around with the 8x10 doesn't work so well. ;-) So, I want to dip back into the smaller formats to create a record of them growing up. I've been trying to use my wife's P&S digital but I've got two big problems with it: 1. I want the camera to take the damn photo when I push the shutter button, not some random amount of time later and 2. Bits are too damn ephemeral for me. I run Operations at an Internet company and I *know* just how much work data preservation takes. Archive sleeves of negatives are just much more stable than magnetic or optical backups. The question is, what to get?

I could rebuild my 35mm kit. Nikon F100s are going pretty cheap used and my fingers still probably remember how to work one. There's lots of nice glass out there for them and 35mm film probably isn't going anywhere. Those negatives look awfully damn small now though...

I could also try MF. Looks like there's a bunch of good choices in 645 out there and something like a Mamiya Pro TL with back, prism and 80mm can be had for $800 or so. I'd get a bigger hunk of film to play with but it seems like the choices for lenses is much more limited than in 35mm. (I have visions of being on the side lines a kids soccer game with a 400mm/2.8 while one of the boys scores the winning goal ;-)).

So, I turn to you fellow APUG'ers. What do you (would you) chase your kids around with? I'd like to stick with fairly modern bodies that I can trust to make reasonable exposure decisions for me. Should I go back to 35mm? Should I try 645? Should I do something else?

Thanks for any advice,
Dean

 

[MattCarey]

I would go the F100 route (or some other AF 35mm). Chasing little ones is a lot easier with autofocus. Also, with a good flash and the automated routines in something like the F100, you can get good results in changing situations, even when using it as a fill flash.

Also, should you or your wife go for a digital SLR at some point, the glass can go with the new camera. My wife got fed up with the ~1s delay for a digital P&S, and the D70 increased her joy and her images greatly.

Matt (with a 2 1/2 year old and a 7 month old and just south of you).

 

[Changeling1]

For photographing your kids I would suggest a good used auto-focus SLR like a Canon EOS 650 or 620. You can buy good user 650 and 620s for $40.00 or $50.00 on eBay and they would be great for chasing those kids (and pets) around! You can use the Program or manual mode and even use the auto-flash unit if need be. For candids, you just can't beat Auto focus, auto-exposure, and auto film advance! Just my $.02...

 

[Soeren]

After some thought Ill second the F100/AF 35mm advice. I use my F90X with 50mm f/1,4 and 85mm for my three month old.
I probably shouldn't have sold the AIS 28 f/2,8 since the 20mm is too wide for the closeups IMO. OTOH Sheryl Jacobs is making great pics of kids using a Bronica SQAi.
And by the way, you can have AF in 645.
Regards Søren

 

[DeanC]

After some thought Ill second the F100/AF 35mm advice. I use my F90X with 50mm f/1,4 and 85mm for my three month old.

Yeah, the thing that's leaning me back towards the F100 in 35mm is it's what I used to have so I'm already familiar with how it works. The Nikon 3D flash stuff is pretty slick too...

And by the way, you can have AF in 645.
Regards Søren

True...

Thanks,
Dean

 

[Claire Senft]

For mr nothing gives me more confidence that I am in focus than a rangefinder camera. There are a number of owners that swear by there Voightlanders and ther are a nuber of fans of the Contax G2. I would have a very hard time decidnig between these two for photos of active children.

 

[DeanC]

I would go the F100 route (or some other AF 35mm). Chasing little ones is a lot easier with autofocus. Also, with a good flash and the automated routines in something like the F100, you can get good results in changing situations, even when using it as a fill flash.

Also, should you or your wife go for a digital SLR at some point, the glass can go with the new camera. My wife got fed up with the ~1s delay for a digital P&S, and the D70 increased her joy and her images greatly.

Matt (with a 2 1/2 year old and a 7 month old and just south of you).

Good points, thanks. I wish someone made a 645 or 6x6 with the level of automation in modern 35mm SLRs. (actually, the 6008AF might be close but I probably don't want to drop $5000 for this :-/)

 

[BrianShaw]

Like others have suggested... 35mm SLR is only way to go with young kids. I don't care for AF so I focus with my fingers. Nikon F3 is my choice. It's the only camera I can operate fast enough to get a shot of my 2 year old. He's too fast for the 4x5, Hassy, or 35mm rangefinder. My 8 year old son, on the other hand, has turned into my favorite subject with any camera.

 

[Lee Shively]

Medium formats are cheap right now but for kid photos, I'd go with an autofocus 35mm SLR. While I use 35mm rangefinders and medium format SLRs more than any other types of cameras right now, 35mm autofocus cameras work for me better than anything else on moving subjects.

And let that be a lesson to you: don't sell your cameras because you'll only rebuy them again eventually!

 

[removed account4]

hi dean --

i've 3 kids - and if i had to just use one camera to shoot the kids with, it would probably be a 35mm rf. auto focus just doesn't do it for me ( have a af nikon i shot newspaper stuff with --- and it just doesn't want to focus sometimes ... )

--- if i was to do the mf-route, i probably wouldn't get anything new, but a graflex super d with a roll film back. i'd have fred lustig go over it with a fine toothed comb (replace and time the shutter to factory specs), and use nice olde-school glass instead of something brand new. i'd also get a handful of cut film holders or a bag-mag so when i am sick of changing rolls of film i can shoot sheets film ...

using a mf is a nice thought, but are you really going to enlarge the negative so big that you will be getting that much more with a mf camera? i've enlarged 35mm to 16x20 ( or bigger ) and can't say that if i shot in 120 film it would have made that much of a difference.

good luck recording the kids!

(5, 3, 16months + on photo album fifty-something)
john

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

I am going to agree with Claire and vote for a good quality rangefinder camera. I happen to use a Canon P, (which is neither here nor there) and a Nikon F3HP with MD-4. I also think a Nikon F100 would be nice, but I don't have one.

Here is a guy that uses Leica rangefinders and Nikon F100 cameras. See for yourself if he has what it takes to be a good children's photogarapher.

http://www.eddiebonfigli.com/index2a.html

Wayne

 

[SuzanneR]

I have to say that my F100 is a great workhorse for photographing the kids.

With that said... I have been using the Mamiya 7 more and more, so I'm getting pretty comfortable with it when photographing my kids... and other people's kids. And I must say... I love to print those big negs. Even if it's only to 5x7. There's a clarity with the bigger negatives. It has taken a lot of practice, and I'm rather obsessively photographing my kids, but it's been really worth the effort.

Good luck with your decision. No matter what, you're kids will be some of the very few kids these days to have photographs of their childhood to share with their kids!!

Suzanne, mom to a 6 and 4 year old!

 

[Lee Shively]

Do I detect that mainly Nikon users don't like autofocus but Canon users do? Maybe that's something to consider. I used Nikon manual focus SLR's for over 25 years and then switched to Canon EOS autofocus SLR's and have no problem with autofocus at all. In fact, I was anti-AF before buying my first EOS camera and then I was a fully converted. Just a thought.

 

[MattCarey]

Do I detect that mainly Nikon users don't like autofocus but Canon users do? Maybe that's something to consider. I used Nikon manual focus SLR's for over 25 years and then switched to Canon EOS autofocus SLR's and have no problem with autofocus at all. In fact, I was anti-AF before buying my first EOS camera and then I was a fully converted. Just a thought.

I am a big fan of the AF on my N90. I wish I had the N90s or the F100, as the AF is smarter and quicker, though.

I started with AF in an N2020. That was not a good AF system. Slow and stupid. If you didn't have a nice vertical line (like a telephone pole!) in the active area, the system would search for focus forever. At the speed of the AF, forever was about two cycles of the lens...

Matt

 

[firecracker]

Nikon F2 or F would be a good deal. If not, I always recommend my favorite: FM. I'm not a big fan of AF cameras.

 

[L Gebhardt]

I shoot snap shots of the kids with a Nikon N80, D100, Mamiya 7 and Crown Graphic with a Graphmatic. The digital is great for sharing pictures and making calendars. The film cameras are more fun.

The auto focus on the Nikons I own sucks in my opinion. In a store I have tried the Canon (digital) systems and they also seem to suck. Maybe a pro setup would be better in either brand. The major problem I have is the position of the focus sensors. They are all to close to the center to be useful to me. The positionioning seems to result in shots with the subject overly centered and poor composition if the action is happening quickly. Same with the Mamiya 7 (range finder).

I have rolls and rolls of film of my kids that I haven't gotten around to printing. There is something nice about having a lab do that work.

The answer to the digital shutter lag, as others have pointed out, is a digital SLR. The D100 feels instantaineous. Newer cameras are reportedly even better.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

Where is Cheryl? Cheryl Jacobs uses largely a Bronica ETR series camera. I guess I would just do whatever she does considering the quality of her work.

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[DeanC]

Having Cheryl's camera and having Cheryl's skill are different things...

Thanks for the advice everyone, you've mostly confirmed what I was thinking. I'm going to see what the nice folks at KEH can do for me in the way of an F100 and some glass.

 

[rorye]

Dean, I've taken all my favorite shots of my kids with my Nikon N90s. I'm just down the road in San Rafael it you ever want to try it out.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

My ears were burning....

For what it's worth, you're describing the perfect situation for 35mm. It's fast, it's light, it's easy to carry around for those "rare everyday" moments. You're looking for the slice of life without slowing life down. The F100 will be great for that.

That said, you'll learn to work with what you have, within reason. For me, I had to have the depth and richness of MF, even for my own kids' shots, and I was willing to make the concession of carrying a light meter and a larger camera bag to get it. It was awkward at first, definitely, but I didn't allow myself the option of using a 35mm as a bail-out, so I got used to it. And I'm blind.

If you were to decide to go MF, I would actually recommend the Bronica system. It's lighter, and in my experience it's a hell of a lot faster and looser on the focus. Hasseys tend to be too tight to work quickly, and TLR's are a guess at best in close-up work. Rangefinders are great for some people, but I'll confess that I never warmed up to them. (I guess I should refer myself back to paragraph #3...)

Here is a guy that uses Leica rangefinders and Nikon F100 cameras. See for yourself if he has what it takes to be a good children's photogarapher.

Sorry to disappoint, but Eddie's now fully digital. Bummer. Tried to talk him out of it, but to no avail. LOL.

Have fun.

- CJ

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

Sorry to disappoint, but Eddie's now fully digital. Bummer. Tried to talk him out of it, but to no avail. LOL.

Have fun.

- CJ

Sigh!!!! I had not looked at his web page for a year or two. My, how things change!!

Cheryl, I think you should buy Jim Galli's butt ugly Petzval lens and show the world what it can really do!!

Wayne

 

[leeturner]

I had the same thing a couple of months ago. I always had a 35mm around when my first child was born but sold them about 3 years ago. Looking through some negs one day I noticed that I had very few photos of my youngest. Problem is the eyes are not as good as they used to be and the Rollei TLR was a struggle to photograph two VERY energetic girls.

Looked around and picked up a cheap Minolta 700si with two lenses for £70. The autofocus is good but not as good as my old F90x which had the continuous mode. Still, it's small, it works and I've now got pictures of the kids again.

Still thinking about picking up an F100 or F90x though!

 

[Struan Gray]

I have three, aged five, five and two. My feeling is that if I have to live without autofocus I might as well use MF. We have a collection of 35 mm Pentaxes but they are mostly used for B+W and backups these days. Almost all our kids pics are now shot on 6MP digital or my Kowa 6x6 SLR. Sometimes I get them to sit still enough to bring out the 4x5, but the novelty has worn off now and they usually vanish from the frame between focussing and pulling the darkslide.

I agree with Cheryl that once you make yourself handle MF on a regular basis the results start to come through. I don't get any more keepers with manual focus 35 mm than I do with my clunky Kowas, and the 6x6 prints do look significantly smoother to my eye.

You can see our youngest, the family charm troll, here:

Dead Link Removed

This was largely a question of creating a space where good light would happen, waiting for the right day and then snapping away before he fell over onto his face. Easy and fun, with priceless results.

 

[Soeren]

Hey Struan
We have got that pusle thing too
Søren

 

[Struan Gray]

Do you have a spare nose cone for the space shuttle tile? Annoys the hell out of me.