AgfaPhoto: Phoenix from the ashes?

Andy K · Apr 9, 2006

Saw this posted over on the Rangefinder Forum.

http://www.photoscala.com/node/view/1271

NikoSperi · Apr 9, 2006

Hmmm... may have to start testing APX-100 after all. Great news.

Ed_Davor · Apr 9, 2006

"establishments worldwide and operates in the sectors textiles and textile fibres, mechanical engineering, chemicals...."

sounds like someone who works in the right kind of bussines. Most other film manufacturers make electronics and film. This one might approach film from the right angle: film has nothing to do with electronics and digital cameras, it belongs inthe chemical industry.

edz · Apr 9, 2006

Andy K said:
Saw this posted over on the Rangefinder Forum.

http://www.photoscala.com/node/view/1271

No APX from the ashes. They purchased the stuff to make film base materials. Even among the "film application" its a growing market--- the demand for motion picture postive stocks is strong and rising.

Film production is another can of worms and beyond all the scale problems the most significant asset--- the "Agfa" tradename--- is still tried up by AgfaPhoto Holding controlled by the Nanno holding company led by Hartmut Emans. Agfa and AgfaPhoto Holding are in ligitation over the rights. As long as one can't use the name "Agfa" on film there is no chance that anyone will touch that part of the business....

butterflydream · Apr 9, 2006

I second that. Hyosung was a polyester textile maker and then film maker (and some other engineering plastics). Once they had been one of the biggest VTR tape base film suppliers in the world.

Maybe they are just interested in the production equipments for their film extrusion, coverting and coating. Agfa should have advanced coating technology and equipment that is very useful to Hyosung's film business which now is quite hot for the LCD industry.

I wish I'm wrong and APX would revive. But to my knowledge this company had produced mainly industrial products and is not competent is photographic materials.

Earl Dunbar · Apr 9, 2006

I suggest everyone wait and see, and not jump to either positive or negative conclusions. Like other forums, APUG operates on internet time, business change has another timebase.

HerrBremerhaven · Apr 9, 2006

edz said:
. . . . . . . AgfaPhoto Holding controlled by the Nanno holding company led by Hartmut Emans. Agfa and AgfaPhoto Holding are in ligitation over the rights. As long as one can't use the name "Agfa" on film there is no chance that anyone will touch that part of the business....

Good afternoon edz,

It certainly seems like Herr Emans could be the leading cause of failure at AGFAPhoto. Everything I have read in the German press about him implies that his greed has caused the bulk of problems in failed negotiations. Personally, I hope he loses lots of money when this finally gets resolved.

I have heard of discussions to release a version of film much like APX100, though unfortunately not with that name. It could happen, but it will need to be on popular opinion of any newly introduced film retaining the same characteristics of APX100. There would not be any legal method for suggesting a new film was the previous APX100, nor would any name usage be able to stand without some possible litigation.

Those of us who have used a good deal of APX100 in the past could probably tell if a new emulsion was nearly the same in performance. Unfortunately, I don't know that collective voices would be enough to ensure success of a new B/W film. Seems there is more interest in reviving the one-time-use cameras business that AGFAPhoto used to have, mostly with disposable cameras without the AGFA name nor logo on them.

Ciao!

butterflydream · Apr 9, 2006

Well, I have Rollei Retro films. Nice package and price.

Simon R Galley · Apr 10, 2006

Dear All,

This is about the manufacture and extrusion of the film base, not the coating of film emulsions onto it, but indeed this is good news. The actual coating machine in Leuverkusen has not been sold as far as I am aware.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited:

Petzi · Apr 10, 2006

There are two machines afaik, one for paper coating, and one for film coating.

It is unfortunate that there is not going to be any color film and paper production in Europe in the future. There is some choice for b/w materials, which is great, but with Fuji closing down production of photographic materials in Tilburg, it appears there is nothing left in Europe, unless Kodak still has a factory somewhere (France?)

Once the color materials production is closed down, it will be gone forever. When the skilled personnel is gone, the machines scrapped, the knowledge forgotten, and suppliers of raw materials out of business, production will never be restarted, because coating color films and papers is so complicated.

ajuk · Apr 10, 2006

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) Posted a few days ago.

ajuk · Apr 10, 2006

edz said:
Even among the "film application" its a growing market--- the demand for motion picture postive stocks is strong and rising.

What films are shot on positve stock?

Kino · Apr 10, 2006

None that I know of, but statistically, less than a half of a percent of motion picture houses in the World have digital projection, and your typical feature is 12 to 14 reels (reel unit= thousand feet), so the real cash cow in motion pictures is NOT camera original, but the release print stock.

Frank W.

jeroldharter · Apr 10, 2006

Probably old news, but I saw an article posted on that sight that Pentax is giving up medium format cameras, 645 and 67II. That is too bad.

Uncle Bill · Apr 10, 2006

I agree with Earl on this one...

Earl Dunbar said:
I suggest everyone wait and see, and not jump to either positive or negative conclusions. Like other forums, APUG operates on internet time, business change has another timebase.

lets wait and see how this shakes out, I love both APX 100 and 400 and if they live on under a new name, no big deal as long its available in North America and we know what it is. Lets see how this shakes out.

Bill

Andy K · Apr 11, 2006

Simon R Galley said:
The actual coating machine in Leuverkusen has not been sold as far as I am aware.

Petzi said:
It is unfortunate that there is not going to be any color film and paper production in Europe in the future. There is some choice for b/w materials, which is great, but with Fuji closing down production of photographic materials in Tilburg, it appears there is nothing left in Europe,

An opportunity for a return of Ilfochrome..?

Simon R Galley · Apr 11, 2006

Only one production machine afaik.

Yes it is a great pity, for colour I think you are now correct apart from Ferrania in Italy of course and KODAK at Harrow in the UK.

Kind Regards

Simon.

ajuk · Apr 11, 2006

Kino said:
None that I know of, but statistically, less than a half of a percent of motion picture houses in the World have digital projection, and your typical feature is 12 to 14 reels (reel unit= thousand feet), so the real cash cow in motion pictures is NOT camera original, but the release print stock.

Frank W.

Oh that sort of Positive stock, 12-14 rolls!! Wow, didn't realise it was that many.

Petzi · Apr 11, 2006

Simon R Galley said:
Yes it is a great pity, for colour I think you are now correct apart from Ferrania in Italy of course and KODAK at Harrow in the UK.

Ferrania have been selling other manufacturer's film for the last couple years.

Petzi · Apr 11, 2006

Andy K said:
An opportunity for a return of Ilfochrome..?

Ilfochrome is available. I don't print from transparencies though. I need paper to print colour negatives. (So does pretty much everyone who operates a digital lab.)

edz · Apr 11, 2006

butterflydream said:
Well, I have Rollei Retro films. Nice package and price.

Packaging is wonderfull and just the thing for aspiring fine-art cognoscentis. Contents..? HIgher cost and inferior to the product we got from Agfa. Agfa did a better job of cutting and used superior materials (other than the box) than Forte. The emulsion is also apparently not 100% identical, despite being sourced from Agfa, to the APX product as sold by Agfa. Moersch's Tanol Speed, for instance, gets 200 ASA from Rollei Retro 100 but only 100 ASA from the Agfa product. Interestingly, the Retro product also solarizes in that developer while APX-100 does not.

Brac · Apr 12, 2006

Petzi said:
There are two machines afaik, one for paper coating, and one for film coating.

It is unfortunate that there is not going to be any color film and paper production in Europe in the future. There is some choice for b/w materials, which is great, but with Fuji closing down production of photographic materials in Tilburg, it appears there is nothing left in Europe, unless Kodak still has a factory somewhere (France?)

Once the color materials production is closed down, it will be gone forever. When the skilled personnel is gone, the machines scrapped, the knowledge forgotten, and suppliers of raw materials out of business, production will never be restarted, because coating color films and papers is so complicated.

Kodak's French factory closed & production was moved to China but Kodak still make colour paper in the UK. Whether they make film as well here I don't know. There also remains Ferrania in Italy making Solaris and own brand label stuff for supermarkets & photo chains. They are the only remaining source for 126 colour film.

AgfaPhoto: Phoenix from the ashes?

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