Advice needed on Rolleiflex lightmeter

[Analogski]

Hi there,

Recently I had my Rolleiflex 3.5f serviced. The technician who checked the camera out gave me a description about the light meter. He wrote:

"The deviation of your exposure meter is one f-stop too long at a light value of 1/500 + aperture 8. At 1/125 + 1/30, the deviation is less than ½ f-stop too long".

So, I think I'm overthinking this one and not sure anymore what to do when metering.

I know.... Use a handheld meter or learn the sunny 16 rule. The last one om learning, but I don't want to screw up in poor natural light situations. And a handheld meter for street photography, or when taking pictures of my family, is for me not ideal.

Could you give me advice how to read/set my built in lightmeter?


Thanks a lot!

 

[Don_ih]

That may be the worst description you could get. But it sounds like the meter is close enough through the shutter speed range for b&w. Try a test roll using the values the meter gives. Check the results by developing.

 

[OAPOli]

I agree that the report is confusing. 1/500 and f/8 is 15EV, what is "1/125 + 1/30"?

At any rate, 1 or 1/2 stop overexposure is nothing to worry about; I would use as-is. You can set the meter to a 1 stop lower ISO to compensate if you want.

If you want to further overthink it, consider the effects of shutter efficiency: exposure time varies as a function of aperture for the fast speeds.

 

[BrianShaw]

Why don’t you do the study yourself? Compare the Rollei meter with a trusted handheld or camera meter. Do it in a couple of light ranges. Then decide if you understand or agree with what the repairperson wrote or if there’s anything to worry about. Most of all, heed the earlier comments; both are really good advice.

 

[reddesert]

I don't think it's that complicated. IMO what the tech said is that the meter recommendation at 1/500 and f/8 will overexpose by a stop (it would be nice to know at what ISO they meant, but I assume something in the mid-range like ~100). That's fairly bright light.

At either 1/125 or 1/30 (and what f-stop ? maybe f/8), it is overexposing by less than 1/2 stop. Overexposure by less than 1/2 stop is not a big deal unless you are shooting slide film. So use it and remember it might overexpose by a stop in bright light. Of course, the recommendation to try comparing it to some known-accurate handheld meter is a good one, if you have a known-accurate handheld meter.

 

[Chan Tran]

Could he mean the shutter speed? He didn't said the ISO?

 

[MattKing]

Could he mean the shutter speed? He didn't said the ISO?

This, I expect.
Was there, perchance, an issue with language and translation?
Typically, the advice refers to how the shutter speeds differ from the indicated speed. And when a 1/500 set shutter speed is about a stop too slow - closer to 1/250 - then the camera set according to the meter reading over-exposes by a stop.
And continuing with this example, the 1/125 and 1/30 speeds are probably about a 1/2 stop slow.

 

[Don_ih]

This, I expect.

I'd assume that except for the use of the word "meter" in

"The deviation of your exposure meter is one f-stop too long at a light value of 1/500 + aperture 8. At 1/125 + 1/30, the deviation is less than ½ f-stop too long".

But an old shutter like that is probably not running at 1/500 -- or any other exact speed.

The best advice is probably to directly check the meter against a known good one. A phone app would probably work well enough.

 

[MattKing]

I agree Don, which is why I suspect a language issue.

 

[Paul Howell]

I would do a ring around, in open shade a gray card, model, a swath of black cloth with texture, white cloth with texture. Shoot a roll of your usual film, set the meter at ASA 25, meter, shoot a frame, cover the lens and shoot a blank frame, then move the ASA until you get to top end of the meter, 1600 or 3200. Then in bright light test again then develop the film. When printed or scanned you are looking for the frame that provides zone III shadows, shadows with details, the black cloth, zone V, the gray card and if you are lucky zone VII the white cloth. The frame with Zone III, the black cloth is your personal ISO for that camera film and developer. If Zone VII is blown out, reduce by 10% if too flat increase development by 10%. The shots in bright light should match or provide guidance as top how you film developer combo will work in normal lighting.

 

[Chan Tran]

This, I expect.
Was there, perchance, an issue with language and translation?
Typically, the advice refers to how the shutter speeds differ from the indicated speed. And when a 1/500 set shutter speed is about a stop too slow - closer to 1/250 - then the camera set according to the meter reading over-exposes by a stop.
And continuing with this example, the 1/125 and 1/30 speeds are probably about a 1/2 stop slow.

Now the shutter performance like that. 1 stop slow at 1/500 and 1/2 stop slow at lower speed is typical of cameras that old but if he serviced it shouldn't he adjust it so they are closer than that.

 

[MattKing]

Now the shutter performance like that. 1 stop slow at 1/500 and 1/2 stop slow at lower speed is typical of cameras that old but if he serviced it shouldn't he adjust it so they are closer than that.

In many cases, the fastest shutter speeds in these leaf shutter cameras didn't start out as being their fully "up to speed" and even if adjusted were not and are not either.
And attempts to adjust them risk making the slower speeds less accurate as well.

 

[OAPOli]

I've serviced a few of those small Synchro Compurs: 1/450s at the 1/500s setting is routinely obtained.

 

[Analogski]

Thanks for the replies! I had the camera serviced and the shutter had the main spring replaced.
In the old situation (where the lightmeter was tested on), the shutter speeds were way off...
1/1=1/10.8
1/2=1/3.2
1/4=1/5
1/8=1/7
1/15=1/10
1/30=1/40
1/60=1/100
1/125=1/250
1/250=1/300
1/500=1/425

Now, after the (re)service the new situation is:
1/1=1/3
1/2=1/3
1/4=1/6
1/8=1/10
1/15=1/16
1/30=1/40
1/60=1/60
1/125=1/125
1/250=1/200
1/500=1/450

So the situation now is different. I don't know if the technician at Paepke in Germany took the " normal" shutter speeds into consideration, I don't think so... I think he took the readings with the old shutterspeeds. ]

I could overexpose always with 0,5 or 1 stop, or is this not recommended, looking at the discrepancy in the shutter speeds?

As some advised, I could also take my digital camera, or Nikon F100, or my Sekonic meter (use the reflected metering?) and look at the differences. Or will this not be necessary?

 

[Dan Daniel]

I'm not certain that the technician was discussing shutter speeds. Maybe he was discussing meter reaction to varying light levels. Meters are not always linear, and selenium meters like in the Rolleis can get more erratic with age.

He could mean that the meter, exposed to a standard light level of EV 15 (1/500@ f/8) gives a reading of EV 14. And that at EV 13, it gives 12-1/2 and at EV 11 it gives a reading of 10-1/2.

These results are independent of actual shutter speeds. Simply how the meter itself reacts to standardized light levels. Then actual shutter speeds versus theoretical adds a second layer of exposure slop... uh, exposure compensation.

 

[BrianShaw]

The 1 second shutter speed measurements are a bit surprising. That's generally the first and easiest to get right.

 

[Chan Tran]

The 1 second shutter speed measurements are a bit surprising. That's generally the first and easiest to get right.

Not really for a mechanical controlled shutter if you want the 1 sec to be right you may hurt the other speeds. You can't adjust each speed individually. For an electronically controlled shutter the 1 sec usually right on.

 

[BrianShaw]

Not really for a mechanical controlled shutter if you want the 1 sec to be right you may hurt the other speeds. You can't adjust each speed individually. For an electronically controlled shutter the 1 sec usually right on.

It's a tradeoff, of course, but it really is generally the first and easiest per the manufacturer repair documentation. Originally, that shutter didn't have a 1-second timing that far off. Certainly not the same as the 1/2 second timing. Something is wrong; perhaps the measurement... who knows based on what we know. Perhaps the slow speed escapement is either a bit wonky or not properly lubricated. Synchro Compurs can be fussy. The cams are generally trustworthy for the speeds where the slow-speed escapement is out of play, if the shutter is in decent shape. Adjustments by peening or filing the cam were standard procedures for correcting faster speeds but not commonly needed.

 

[Analogski]

I asked Copilot to interpret the shutterspeeds and the technicians reply on the lightmeter.

The hot came with this advice:

Practical use:In bright sun: expose 1 stop less than the meter suggests.In normal daylight: expose ½ stop less.In shade or low light: the meter is close to correct, but the shutter runs fast at slow speeds, so give a bit more exposure (about +⅓ to +½ stop).

So if I underexpose 1/2 stop all the time, I'll be relatively safe? (Always cloudy in The Netherlands when I go out with my beloved Rollei).

 

[BrianShaw]

copilot should have been more honest with you and just said it doesn’t understand the information provided rather than guessing. Spend the few minutes it will take to compare the Rollei meter with a known reliable meter. It’s not with guessing if you want to know the answer.

If copilot is responding to the shutter speed numbers you presented then it really should have said “just don’t shoot at 1 second; don’t worry about the other speeds; you’ll be fine”.

 

[MattKing]

copilot should have been more honest with you and just said it doesn’t understand the information provided rather than guessing. Spend the few minutes it will take to compare the Rollei meter with a known reliable meter. It’s not with guessing if you want to know the answer.

If copilot is responding to the shutter speed numbers you presented then it really should have said “just don’t shoot at 1 second; don’t worry about the other speeds; you’ll be fine”.

+1

 

[Analogski]

copilot should have been more honest with you and just said it doesn’t understand the information provided rather than guessing. Spend the few minutes it will take to compare the Rollei meter with a known reliable meter. It’s not with guessing if you want to know the answer.

If copilot is responding to the shutter speed numbers you presented then it really should have said “just don’t shoot at 1 second; don’t worry about the other speeds; you’ll be fine”.

Yeah, I think I'll take it out on a spin with my Sekonic L-308x and mesure the reflected light, or my Nikon F100, what may be easier.

 

[BrianShaw]

Just remember that you might see slight differences based on differences between the meter fields of view. The F100, for instance, is a weighted meter whereas the Rollei is a 30 degree (more or less) general coverage. With a neutral scene it shouldn't matter much but with a natural scene you might see some differences. I'm not familiar with the Sekonic 308 but isn't that a flash and incident lightmeter? If so, the comparison isn't going to be completely equivalent. Use a general coverage reflective meter or the weighted meter if that's the reflective meter you have. Someone mentioned earlier phone app meter. Personally, I would do that; there are free ones that will do the job for you very easily.

 

[Chan Tran]

Well if the op has a digital camera he could check and see how well the meter works.

 

[BrianShaw]

Or, as an alternative... use one of your other meters and set the exposure manually on the Rollei. Enjoy life!