Absolute MF newbie

Zane Yau · Apr 11, 2006

Hi guys

I've been shooting 35mm and digital for a few years but been recently looking at investing in a medium format camera system (hooked by Holga hehe)

I love shooting travel, landscape and people.

I want to use MF for landscape and preferably in 6x6 format. I am also planning to get a moderately wide lens so that I can crop the 66 to make it something like 24 x 60.

So guys, if I am on a low budget, what do you recommend?

I have been looking around and researching and have narrowed down to the following:

1. a used Bronica ETR kind of system with 75mm standard lens and a wide say 40 f4 lens (Oh just realised Bronnie is a 645 system - i guess i can still crop 24 x 60 right?);

2. new Kiev 88 CM with 80 2.8 and 45 3.5 outfit from www.kievcamera.com

Any other affordable system I should look into?

Too confused, any input will be appreciated!! Thanks guys

FrankB · Apr 11, 2006

6x6, affordable, interchangeable lenses -

Try a Mamiya C330 TLR. Built like a hockey-puck, good quality lenses available from 55mm through to 250mm, reliable and far cheaper than most other interchangeable lens MF solutions.

See Dead Link Removed for a very comprehensive information source.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

Frank

Nick Zentena · Apr 11, 2006

Zane Yau said:
1. a used Bronica ETR kind of system with 75mm standard lens and a wide say 40 f4 lens (Oh just realised Bronnie is a 645 system - i guess i can still crop 24 x 60 right?);

If you mean an image area of 60mm then the answer is no. To do that you'd need a 6x7 camera. All negatives measurements include a little extra to cover the unexposed area.

If that's okay with you the ETRSI is a good choice. Going with the a 645 makes more sense if you intend to crop. 40mm 645 lenses will tend to be cheaper then 40mm 6x6 lenses.

Konical · Apr 11, 2006

Good Afternoon, Zane,

As with many topics, it will help to do a Forum search for previously-posted information. There's been a lot of discussion of your general topic.

Konical

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 11, 2006

A reason to shoot 6x6 for landscape, even if you plan to print rectangular, is that you can crop from anywhere in the frame. If you use the middle of the frame, it's like 645, but if you use the top or the bottom, then it's like having front rise and fall on a view camera.

This is from a 6x6 transparency. I had originally planned to make a near/far composition with a lot of detail in the foreground, but decided that it looked better as a symmetrical composition, so I cropped out approximately the bottom third of the image--

Zane Yau · Apr 11, 2006

Thanks for all the thoughts guys and sorry for not having done the search first before I posted the question. Been lurking around here for a while, just couldnt find the answer

With TLR, I have thought about that too, just not sure how difficult it is to use neutral density filters for landscape....

Thanks for the photo demo, David. I love to have a 6x6 camera, but looks like my budget will only allow me to get a 645 at the moment, unless I want to go for the Kiev...

jonnyboy · Apr 11, 2006

Thanks for the photo demo, David. I love to have a 6x6 camera, but looks like my budget will only allow me to get a 645 at the moment, unless I want to go for the Kiev...[/QUOTE]

Zane,
If you go for a Kiev MF, try the Kiev 60 SLR. It's lots cheaper and, IMHO, easier to use, especially if you have only used viewfinder cameras in the past. For an absolute beginner in MF, I would suggest a good TLR as a first foray in the format. Most Rolleicords, Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex IIa's, Mamiya C3/C33's and Minolta Autocords are good choices. Another viable alternative is a decent folder to try out possibilities and get a better idea what you need without spending tons of cash for a camera you may not even like or doesn't fit your style of shooting. Don't let the fact that many such cameras have "only" three-element lenses dissuade you from buying one. The Agfa Apotars are decent performers as are most Zeiss Triotars. The lenses used on Ansco Titans and Speedexes are generally very good (most, especially after WWII, are Wollensak-made). Avoid "collectible"-category cameras. Why pay the extra (lots extra!) money for a camera that is only marginally better than the more run-of-the-mill types?

Jon
from Deepinaharta, Georgia

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 11, 2006

I shot that with a Bronica S2a. If you can afford a Kiev, you can afford an S2a or if you like a more modern design, one of the Bronica SQ series cameras.

gnashings · Apr 11, 2006

Just a thought: you mention 6x6 but you also say you are most likely to crop to a 645 aspect ratio. Why not get a RB67? They are dirt cheap, bulletproof, have excellent glass... and... its a lot easier to make a 6x6 out of a 6x7 than vice versa Plus, you buy into a truly professional system that has a sterling reputation, is still sold new, extensive accessories - you name it.
Plus, you have the bellows giving you an almost built in macro capability if you have the inclination to try that.
On the down side - it is big...ish... OK, OK, it big. But I personally don't find it beyod the realm of hand holding and carrying around, especially with a nice strap to help you out. I have seen complete systems for about $300, a little more for nicer examples or more extensive kits.

You may also look at Hasselblads - some of the older ones are really surprisingly cheap - although still a fair bit above what the gear discussed here is fetching.

Whatever you get, I am sure you will love MF - best of luck!

Peter.

scott k · Apr 12, 2006

TLR and grad filters

I have had a Mamiya C220 for a couple of months now and have the same issue with a TLR and graduated filters. I have been told that you can look at the reflection of your image on the front of the filter and place the graduation appropriately. The graduation is difficult to see from the front on the camera so Ive thought about measuring down to the center of the graduation and use this measurement with a ruler and the reflection to place the filter. I havent tried this yet and I may never try it. I have a Crown Graphic on the way. I really, really like the C220 but I like to shoot B&W as well as color transparency, I thought about adding another C220 body but the two bodies weigh more than a Crown!

Scott

dustym · Apr 12, 2006

I agree go with the RB pleasure to works with you can crop to 6x6 you can also get nice panoramics on long shots, superb lenses and crystal clear viewfinder, my dad has a mamiya TLR lovely piece of kit wonderful lenses, cant go wrong with mamiya, I also have a Bronica s2a scruffy a bit bent but a great camera really fond of it, and it was cheap with a 90mm lens GBP 95.00

Bob F. · Apr 12, 2006

I would not recommend a particular camera as (a) I have only used a few and, (b) most are well made and will do the job well.

6x7 is a nice format, but SLRs tend to be large cameras and weigh a lot.

6x6 gives you the most options in a reasonably light package. Used SQA and SQA-i are readily available at a sensible price, but watch out for the price of the 40mm lenses - but then, not many 40mm MF lenses are particularly cheap...

One of the 6x4.5 format cameras will be lighter and cheaper than a 6x6 SLR and if you are thinking you will want to crop often to panoramic proportions, will waste less film.

Good luck, Bob.

Zane Yau · Apr 12, 2006

Thanks a lot again guys.

Yeah I heard about the Mamiya RB 67, friend of mine has one, and it really is a beast.

Easter long weekend is coming, I have borrowed my friend's Bronica ETR (645) and another friend's Pentax 67 to try out.

Correct about wasting film too, i just think the bigger the better...

Will let you guys know what I think of the Bronnie and Pentax... thanks

Zane Yau · Apr 12, 2006

jonnyboy said:
[...] and get a better idea what you need without spending tons of cash for a camera you may not even like or doesn't fit your style of shooting. [...]
Jon
from Deepinaharta, Georgia

This is exactly my concern Jon. Thanks

Zane Yau · Apr 12, 2006

oh yeah, my Pentax friend is prepared to sell his Pentax 67 (with MLU) and 45 4 and 75 4.5 lenses for AUD 1200 to me (approx USD850) to me

The 45 lens is quite new but rest of the gear is well used (shutter looks good and clean though). What do you guys think of the price?

gnashings · Apr 12, 2006

The best thing to do, in order to get a handle on maret values, is a quick scan of completed auctions on eBay. KEH is also a very good barometer - their prices very, very reasonable. I have kept a closer eye on RB prices than P67 though, so personally I can't really comment. I have to say - the Pentax seems more handy at first (ok, perhaps it just ismore handy), but having shot both, my preference is with the RB. I like the leaf shutters, the bellows and interchangeable, rotating backs. Frankly, the revelation to me was the fact that any adventage the Pentax had in handling was cancelled out by the rotating back - once you get in the frame of mind that you never have to flip that RB around on its side or do anything of the sort, the bulk seems a lot less of an issue. Of course this is my take on it, your view may vary vastly based on your experiences.

Zane Yau · Apr 13, 2006

gnashings said:
The best thing to do, in order to get a handle on maret values, is a quick scan of completed auctions on eBay. KEH is also a very good barometer - their prices very, very reasonable. I have kept a closer eye on RB prices than P67 though, so personally I can't really comment. I have to say - the Pentax seems more handy at first (ok, perhaps it just ismore handy), but having shot both, my preference is with the RB. I like the leaf shutters, the bellows and interchangeable, rotating backs. Frankly, the revelation to me was the fact that any adventage the Pentax had in handling was cancelled out by the rotating back - once you get in the frame of mind that you never have to flip that RB around on its side or do anything of the sort, the bulk seems a lot less of an issue. Of course this is my take on it, your view may vary vastly based on your experiences.

Thanks for your advice... Keh has a lot on offer at the moment, great!

I don't quite get the rotating back feature of the RB, is it like you can rotate the 67 back into 76 without rotating the camera? what will you see in the viewfinder?

Woolliscroft · Apr 13, 2006

Zane Yau said:
I don't quite get the rotating back feature of the RB, is it like you can rotate the 67 back into 76 without rotating the camera? what will you see in the viewfinder?

That's exactly what it is. In the viewfinder you will see a sguare image with red guide lines which show you what is actually in shot for the back setting you are using. Fear not, it's very intuitive to use.

David.

jedrek · Apr 13, 2006

Other than the Kiev, you can try a Pentacon Six MF SLR system (compatible with the Kiev 88 I believe). They're dirt cheap (I got a body with a 50 f/4 lens for $100), have quite a number of lenses available and work great, especially for that price point.

You can read a lot more on http://www.pentaconsix.com/

Nick Zentena · Apr 13, 2006

If you want to save film and not crop get the 135W [not the 135N] back for the Bronica ETR. I think it's the exact format you want but on 35mm film.

Zane Yau · Apr 18, 2006

Thanks for the many ideas guys (and the link for Pentacon)...

Thanks Nick for the info on the 135W back.

Absolute MF newbie

Zane Yau

FrankB

Nick Zentena

Konical

David A. Goldfarb

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Zane Yau

jonnyboy

David A. Goldfarb

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gnashings

scott k

dustym

Bob F.

Zane Yau

Zane Yau

Zane Yau

gnashings

Zane Yau

Woolliscroft

jedrek

Nick Zentena

Zane Yau

Absolute MF newbie

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