a little advice

[Arelia99]

Hi guys! I have been wanting to get into LF photography, of course like many my budget it very low. I have been watching evilbay and have had no luck...seems like a lot of people are going there and the large format gear is selling for some very high prices. So just a quick question,

If I were to get from KEH a camera body (the 4X5 OMEGA VIEW 45F LARGE FORMAT VIEW CAMERA BODY) what else would I need to complete it? I know a lens (of course) but what else, film holders I assume...Any advice is great! All I really wanted was to get a basic 4x5 kit of some kind for under $200! Maybe thats unrealistic! I have also considered buying the badger kit, but that would be 350 plus lens....or buying the book that outlines how to build one on your own....Its kind of depressing really....

Thanks for listening!

Nancy

 

[jolefler]

Hi Nancy!

You should be able to get going for that amount with some careful shopping. Don't dismiss the Crowns & Speed Graphics as an entry camera - should be able to pick one up, working, with a few holders & 135/127mm for that.

KEH has always been good to me and WAY more easy and knowledgeable than some e* sellers. Using the auction site, try to shop during the week; weekends tend to be pricier.

Don't forget to get trays, too...you'll want to soup your first efforts!

 

[DBP]

With your budget, I would second the suggestion of a Speed Graphic or its cousins or peers. The Burke and James Press and Busch Pressman often sell for less than their Graflex counterparts (this was true when new, as well). Where in Virginia are you?

 

[Konical]

Good Morning, Nancy,

Don't forget a good tripod!

Konical

 

[glbeas]

You will want to find a decent loupe, one of those plastic ones that sell pretty cheap will do, and a darkcloth which might be a chunk of blackout curtain from the fabric store. Next a decent light meter. Some will specify an incident, some a spot meter. Whatever you decide be sure it's fairly accurate and get very familiar with it's use.

 

[Ted Harris]

IMO you would be better off starting with an inexpensive monorail such as a Calumet or Toyo/Omega, both of which are often available in the $100 price range. You should be able to compliment that with a decent inexpensive lens, etc. for another 100 or a bit more. I am not a fan of the Speed Graphic for a number of reasons, especially for someone who wants to learn to use a view camera, they are just too limited and mot are ancient. Before you make any decisions go to the large Format Home Page http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ and read the section on getting started.

When you are ready to make your first purchases you will do ok at KEH. You will do better by calling Jim at Midwest Photo (614-261-1264 or www.mpex.com) he is totally honets and straightforward and knows large format. He will be able to put togethher a kit for you and what is best if it doesn't work he will be happy to exchange it or take it back.

 

[Roger Hicks]

IMO you would be better off starting with an inexpensive monorail such as a Calumet or Toyo/Omega, both of which are often available in the $100 price range. You should be able to compliment that with a decent inexpensive lens, etc. for another 100 or a bit more. I am not a fan of the Speed Graphic for a number of reasons, especially for someone who wants to learn to use a view camera, they are just too limited and most are ancient.

I'm absolutely with Ted on this. My first 4x5, 35 years ago, was a press camera and it almost put me off for life -- just not versatile enough, and too old, even then.

If you're just getting into LF you might also care to look at a couple of free modules at the Photo School at www.rogerandfrances.com. 'The Large Formats' gives background information on things like international backs and film holders, and there are two bits in 'How Do I...?' which show you how to load a film holder and how to process film in a Paterson Orbital.

Cheers,

R.

 

[wilsonneal]

I agree that Speed and Crown Graphics can be a tough way to start, and would look for an old grey Calumet, Kodak Graphic View II, a B&J monorail, Toyo-Omega. I've seen these regularly go for $100-$150 on eBay. The downside of these monorails is that they're harder to transport than a field camera, but this may not be an issue for you. Your budget of under $200 to include camera, lens, film holders, dark cloth, tripod, and loupe is going to be hard. I think it's doable for probably $300. The nice thing about the Crown or Speed, even though it's a harder way to start in some respects, is that you can often find a decent kit at a garage or estate sale for less than $100. I've even been given Crowns because no one wanted them. Be patient and an option that works for you will come up.
Neal

 

[Roger Hicks]

Your budget of under $200 to include camera, lens, film holders, dark cloth, tripod, and loupe is going to be hard.

Dear Nancy,

He's right, but...

To save on a loupe, use a 50mm camera lens available for little or nothing. To save on a dark-cloth, consider making one yourself. Don't be intimidated ny those why tell you that you need a tripod as solid as the Rock of Gibraltar: if you don't use the centre column (or if you buy a tripod without a centre column), as long as it will support the weight, vibration shouldn't be a problem: the mass of the camera itself will damp a lot of vibration. Another free module you might find useful is again in the 'How do I...?' section: choosing a tripod.

And yet another free module is 'Saving Money'. I'm acutely aware that all this is 'puffing' www.rogerandfrances.com and that some people may consider that I am overdoing this. On the other hand, there is a lot of free advice and information there -- all the modules I've suggested are free -- and there's no sense in retyping it. Yes, of course I hope that the people who go for the free stuff will be so impressed that they subscribe, but if they don't -- even if they hate the site -- how much has anyone been inconvenienced?

Cheers,

R.

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm absolutely with Ted on this. My first 4x5, 35 years ago, was a press camera and it almost put me off for life -- just not versatile enough, and too old, even then.

Wimp

I started off with a Super Graphic (that was given to me) so despite the limitations I never complained. A couple of years later I bought a "real view camera". The biggest difference for me was the better lenses that I also bought.

Why hasn't anyone asked Nancy what kind of LF photography she intends to do before deciding which kind of camera to recommend or not-recommend?

I chuckle constantly to myself (oh, drat... now you know) when the first words out of someone's mouth in response to this kind of question is "____ doesn't have enough movement capability." I always want to follow-up that advise with a somewhat unrelated follow-on question: how much movement is generally needed? I've been shooting LF since the mid-1980's and find that for most of my subjects - portraiture, environmental portraiture, and landscape - I use very little in the way of movements. I felt TOTALLY limited with the press camera's movements when I attempted architecture, though.

So, Nancy, what kind of LF photography do you intend to do?

My advise -- don't get too attached to that $200 limit on your spending. I don't believe that it is realistic (even with rogerandfrances' cost cutting suggestions). If you get a press camera, you'll eventually end up eventaully wanting a real view camera; if you get a real view camera you'll end up eventually wanting more lenses. If you really want to get into LF photography, do some homeork (like you are doing here) and buy something soon so you can figure out for yourself how much it fits your photographic needs. At the same time... start saving more money!

 

[Roger Hicks]

Wimp

I started off with a Super Graphic (that was given to me) so despite the limitations I never complained. A couple of years later I bought a "real view camera". The biggest difference for me was the better lenses that I also bought.

Why hasn't anyone asked Nancy what kind of LF photography she intends to do before deciding which kind of camera to recommend or not-recommend?

I chuckle constantly to myself (oh, drat... now you know) when the first words out of someone's mouth in response to this kind of question is "____ doesn't have enough movement capability." I always want to follow-up that advise with a somewhat unrelated follow-on question: how much movement is generally needed? I've been shooting LF since the mid-1980's and find that for most of my subjects - portraiture, environmental portraiture, and landscape - I use very little in the way of movements. I felt TOTALLY limited with the press camera's movements when I attempted architecture, though.

So, Nancy, what kind of LF photography do you intend to do?

My advise -- don't get too attached to that $200 limit on your spending. I don't believe that it is realistic (even with rogerandfrances' cost cutting suggestions). If you get a press camera, you'll eventually end up eventaully wanting a real view camera; if you get a real view camera you'll end up eventually wanting more lenses. If you really want to get into LF photography, do some homeork (like you are doing here) and buy something soon so you can figure out for yourself how much it fits your photographic needs. At the same time... start saving more money!

Dear Brian,

I'll agree with most of what you said (except perhaps 'Wimp!'), especially the bits about 'What do you want to do?' and the budget limit.

But as I bought my first 5x4 for architecture and still life, I missed the movements. They weren't the only limitations, though. A reversing or revolving back makes life vastly easier, and there are plenty of times when triple extension is a lot more use than double. Both are significant even in your chosen field of portraiture: my main portrait camera is an 8x10 with a custom-made 1-metre (40-inch) bellows, and indeed, I tend to shoot more portraits 'portrait' than 'landscape'.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Arelia99]

Thanks for all the help guys...I just lost another bidding war...oh well!

DPB..I am near Williamsburg!

BrianShaw...I am mostly into rural landscapes...some architecture thrown in...no macro stuff or studio work planned!

I already have a tripod available and Roger, thanks for the tip about the 50mm and focusing, I already own that!

The hunt is still on!

Nancy

 

[Anupam Basu]

Dear Nancy,
To save on a loupe, use a 50mm camera lens available for little or nothing.

Another enhancement I've added to this is to attach a black kodak 35mm film canister to it with the bottom cut out. When you are looking through the reversed lens measure the approximate distance from the ground glass for focus. Then make a tube that from the canister and put it on with some kind of tape. That way you are focussing through a dark tunnel. I can even adjust fine focus in most situations without a dark cloth. And I much prefer this improvised loupe to my other "real" loupe for focussing.

-Anupam

 

[Roger Hicks]

Another enhancement I've added to this is to attach a black kodak 35mm film canister to it with the bottom cut out. When you are looking through the reversed lens measure the approximate distance from the ground glass for focus. Then make a tube that from the canister and put it on with some kind of tape. That way you are focussing through a dark tunnel. I can even adjust fine focus in most situations without a dark cloth. And I much prefer this improvised loupe to my other "real" loupe for focussing.

-Anupam

Dear Anupam,

Elegant!

Thanks,

R.

 

[Anupam Basu]

I might mention that I use an enlarger lens, not an SLR lens. Compact, as sharp as any loupe you can buy and they are giving them away free on EBAy. The kodak canister seems just the right size and slides into my El-Nikkor 50/2.8 and stays on with a little electrician's black tape. Mine even has a little spacer at the other end so there isn't any gap between your eye and the lens for light to get through.

-Anupam

 

[Roger Hicks]

I might mention that I use an enlarger lens, not an SLR lens. Compact, as sharp as any loupe you can buy and they are giving them away free on EBAy. The kodak canister seems just the right size and slides into my El-Nikkor 50/2.8 and stays on with a little electrician's black tape. Mine even has a little spacer at the other end so there isn't any gap between your eye and the lens for light to get through.

-Anupam

DUH!

Why did I never think of that?

Actually I DO have some old enlarger lenses I use as loupes -- but never (so far) on LF. Duh, duh, duh...

Cheers,

R.

 

[BrianShaw]

Dear Brian,

I'll agree with most of what you said (except perhaps 'Wimp!'...

I know you're not a wimp!

Good point about the revolving back. I guess that's one of my personal faults -- I've always had a revolving back on my LF cameras and take it for granted. Also, good point about lenses for portraiture.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I know you're not a wimp!

Good point about the revolving back. I guess that's one of my personal faults -- I've always had a revolving back on my LF cameras and take it for granted. Also, good point about lenses for portraiture.

Dear Brian,

No actual offence (or even offense) taken. Merely a rhetorical device.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Arelia99]

Yes!!! I finally won an auction! I know its not traditionally something that is used for outdoor work but I got a Cambo 4x5 with a rotating back! I would like to have the flexibility of this system...i.e. possibly also get a bag bellows and a wide angle lens. Anyway...now I need to figure out what kind of lens for it and also lens board....more homework! Happy dance!

Nancy

 

[Ted Harris]

Nancy congrats, as long as you aren't going to be lugging it far from the car you will be fine. Suggest that you start with a 150mm or 180mm lens. Many will say 210 but I think you will have more flexibility with the slightly wider lenses.

Some shameless self promotion .... take a look at www.finefocusworkshops.com ... if they interest you might even be able to hitch a ride to the May workshop.