8x10 Film Holders...

[Dorothy Blum Cooper]

Can someone enlighten me? I've been told that Fidelity is what I should go with for film holders. Newer, rather than buying used as there was a 'static' issue. I've shopped around a bit and know that these things aren't cheap. Can someone explain as to what's up with the older models of these holders and what/what not to look for in film holders in general? I've seen them (Fidelity) sell "used" on ebay but don't know what the distinguishing factor is in them (older vs. newer). These will be used in my Kodak Master View Camera. Any input (as always) is greatly appreciated.

 

[Robert Hall]

As with many LF shooters I have quite a large selection of all kinds. I've not had issues with any that were in good repair and no static issues with any brand or age.

 

[Frank Petronio]

I never heard about static being a unique issue to certain brands. If it is dry (desert climate) or cold/dry (Yellowstone in Jan) you can get static with any camera. But if you pull the darkslide slowly and try to discharge yourself when you get out of the car... what else are you going to do? (I am by no means the expert here)

 

[Dorothy Blum Cooper]

Got it! That actually makes sense. Thank you both for replying to my question!

 

[jimgalli]

I also have everything from soup to nuts in holders. Don't be afraid of the wood holders from the '50's and '60's. I have many old Kodak and a few old Ansco that work just fine. Newer holders, I had 2 the other day that were freshly emptied and I noticed that Fidelity and Lisco come out of the identical and same mold. The only thing different was the area where the name is at.

 

[blaze-on]

I wipe the slides off once and a while with a static cling sheet u8sed for the clothes dryer. No problems with that method yet...

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Lisco and Fidelity have for a long time been made in the same factory and they're both perfectly fine. There have been a few slight variations, and I have both, as well as one old Kodak wooden holder that also works fine. Metal darkslides are nice but add weight. Wooden holders are generally lighter than plastic holders, but check for warping.

I haven't tried Toyo 8x10" holders, but the Toyo 4x5" holders that I have are really nice. They seem to be made to closer tolerances, so the film stays straight in the holder always. They cost a little more new than Lisco and Fidelity. I think if I buy any new 8x10" holders, maybe I'll spring for Toyos.

 

[avandesande]

I always thought rightway holders were better than lisco/fidelity. I can't remember why though!

 

[Peter Schrager]

holders

Just getting back into 8x10 but this time I'm doing it on the cheap and with wood holders. Just grabbed another 15 on Ebay for about $11 each. With my previous purchase of wooden holders I'll have no problem swapping out parts; although most of them seem in really fine shape. For half the weight and more than half the money I'll take my chances. Those plastic jobs are just too heavy.
Peter

 

[Foto Ludens]

For what its worth, I have 1 holder as of right now. Its an old Ansco holder I bought from ritzcam.com for $25. I had to replace the tape on the bottom hinges with a little masking tape and black electrical tape. The only other problem I can see is that if I don't cover the holder with a black cloth I may get some light entering through the dark slide slot (I have not done extensive testing on that, I simply make sure to leave the dark cloth there when I'm shooting).

Anyway, there you go.

André

 

[Peter Schrager]

rating system

1. Riteway
2. Lisco Regal
3. Fidelity
Maybe the riteway were better because they were a different company. Fidelity really has no competition so like most american mfg. what do they care how hey work?
David-I've owned the Jap holders and they are well made although they do charge for them-I also think they are even heavier.
Peter

 

[Steve Hamley]

Riteways had a ridge under the film rail that allegedly held the film straighter/flatter (don't remember which) but AFAIK, Riteway never made 8x10 holders. You can see the "ridge" under the film rails in a 4x5 Riteway.

Toyo 8x10 holders have two "fingers" at the far end of the holder that I assume prevent the film from bowing, at least at that end. You can see them on negs as they protrude very very slightly into the image area. If you look at Jim Galli's bud Phil Kember's work, you'll see them as he uses Toyo holders according to his website.

BTW, these fingers can cause loading issues if you don't know they're there; trying to slide a slightly bowed piece of film in doesn't work which seems to indicate the fingers perform as intended. I've had to pull Toyo dark slides pretty far out and press the film flat near the far end of the holder for it to go under the fingers and fit in the holder properly.

Toyos are very nice, but very pricey - about twice a Lisco or Fidelity.

Steve

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've never seen Riteways in 8x10" either.

My Toyo 4x5's were a lucky acquisition that came with another camera I bought. I use mostly Grafmatics and Kinematics for 4x5", but I kept 8 of the Toyos just for when I only need to shoot one or two sheets.

 

[Dorothy Blum Cooper]

Great info...thanks so much!!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I always thought rightway holders were better than lisco/fidelity. I can't remember why though!

That really only applies to the 4x5, since they don't make Riteway 8x10s (at least not anymore). The 4x5 Riteways have a locking button that prevents you from pulling the darkslide until it is loaded in the camera. They also have removable numbering wheels built into the light trap at the end of the holder where you load the film. Which would be a good idea if they actually stayed put where you set them between when you loaded the film and when you exposed it, but I found they had a bad habit of rotating so any numbering scheme I came up with got thrown off. So I took them all out. Plus, if you're doing contact prints, the numbers can't be masked out without cropping.

 

[John Kasaian]

I prefer the black wooden ones made by Graflex for Eastman Kodak. If you buy them from a reputable dealer like Mid West Photographic you can test them out with photo paper and send back any leakers. There is no static problem with wood holders that I've ever encountered. Also, the light traps can be unscrewed so you could rebuild them is you're so inclined. Oh yeah, they're are a lot cheaper and lighter wieght than the plastic ones.

Sometimes you can score on a stack of them on eBay for a reasonable price but you probably can't return any of them if they're not good. I just cannibalize the parts either perform transplants or create "Frankenfilmholders" from the odds and ends I've saved.

For plastic ones, I use Lisco Regal or Lisco Regal IIs but like I said, the black wooden Kodaks offer the most bang for the buck. Don't be afraid of used or wood. In my experience the ratio of good holders to leakers is about the same be they plastic or wood. The tape hinges are easily replaced if need be and on the wood holders you can even replace the locking "ells" I've never found a way to do that with plastics.
More important with used holder is look for clean ones with good dark slides, then vacume them well with a micro attachment on a shop vac before (and everytime) you load them.

Good luck!

 

[dphphoto]

I've always liked the Liscos better than the Fidelitys; I always thought the slides pulled more easily. I had some Fidelitys from the 70's where the slides were almost impossible to pull, and those I got rid of. I started out with old Kodak and Graflex wood holders; they worked fine, but when I got more money I "upgraded."
Another idea for eliminating static is to carry one of those little Kinetronics static brushes, though the dryer sheet idea is a lot cheaper. Dean

 

[Peter Schrager]

holders

I certainly ditto the Liscos for the "feel" Somehow they are just smoother.
Never used them in 8x10 though. As far as cleaning I use an air compressor with a fine nozzle. Lately I'm finding that if I give them a good cleaning and keep them in plastic storage bags the dust thing just goes away. I'm only cleaning them every so often. That occasional dust mark or pinhole is undoubtly going to show up in the sky anyway!!
Best to everyone for Turkey day
Peter

 

[onestopdown]

I think that all the holders can work well. I've used everything from old wooden holders to Lisco to Toyo to Sinar. They each seem to have their quirks and if you use them enough, you will either learn how to overcome their shortcomings/personalities or you will sell them and get a different type.

Also, Peter, the use of the word "Jap" is generally offensive to those of us who are of Japanese ancestry. The holders are Japanese (or even, heaven forbid, "Toyo") Since you spoke positively regarding the products, I'm assuming that you aren't bigoted.

John

 

[Peter Schrager]

Jap

John-actually I had just forgotten the Toyo brand for the moment. Sorry for the faux pas...nothing meant by it.
Peter

 

[onestopdown]

Peter, No problem. Like I mentioned, I assumed mistake rather than intention.

Regarding the holders, I had a friend that was using the Fidelity holders in an 8x10 camera. He was testing some of the last (in this country) Fuji 64T and kept getting soft images. I suggested that he put a small piece of weak double sided adhesive in the middle of the holder (similar to the the Sinar) to hold the film flat. Some of the Fidelity holders I used to use required this to keep the film flat. This is especially important if the the base of the film is thinner. None of the Toyo holder needed this.

 

[Craig]

I've got some old Kodak holders that teh tape has become brittle with age and disintegrated. Where can you get new tape? I tried electrical tape and it isn't sticky enough.

 

[onestopdown]

John Kasaian

I forgot to ask you, when you "Frankenfilmholder(ize?) your holders, do you tighten the rails to compensate for the thinner films? I used the old ones when I was starting out and used to assume the that focus issues were because of faulty technique (although it could have been). But based on my experiences with the plastic ones it could have been that the rails were too lose.

 

[onestopdown]

Craig,

Cloth, not plastic, book mending tape is strong, flexible over a long time and, if important, looks correct. You can get it at book bindery supply houses, and if you are near a custom bindery, you can possibly get small amounts from them.

 

[John Kasaian]

Craig,

The tape hinges are no problem. Gaffer's tape works fine. Book binder's tape is even better. Calumet sells specialized tape too. I use Gaffer's tape 'cause thats what I have.

Onestopdown,

I've never had that problem, though I suppose it could be done. I'd try it on an old hull first.