7x17 Back and Bellows Weight?

[ReallyBigCameras]

Here's a rather odd request...

I am in the middle of designing and assembling (I say assembling because I'm leaving the building of key components to those more skilled than me) a 7x17 camera. It will be similar to the 4x10 camera I currently used that was assembled using parts from ARCA-SWISS and Lotus. The design work is done and I have created a spreadsheet with the weights of the individual pieces/assemblies. However, the two pieces of data I lack are the weight of the bellows and back. At this point, I just have place holders for those two values and would like to get a more refined estimate of what my finished camera will weigh.

So, I seek the assistance of all you 7x17 shooters out there. If you have a 7x17 camera with an easily removable back and bellows, could you weigh those items (bellows including mounting frames and camera back - just the back, not the entire rear standard) and post the weights here I'd appreciate it. Also, please state which brand of camera you have and your maximum bellows length. I suspect different brands will vary a bit in weight and, of course, bellows weight is a function of length.

Also, while you have the back off of your camera, if you could measure the width and height, that would also be helpful. I'm currently using 20"x11" for the width and height of the back (based on a 7x17 Korona), but if there are any back designs out there that are more compact, I'd be interested in the details.

At this point, I suspect I'm in the 12 lb. plus/minus 1 lb. range. It's gotten a little heavier than originally planned, but I've added self-arresting geared rise and axis tilt to the front standard, as well as rear base tilt and swing to my original concept and I've beefed up the rear format frame to make it more rigid.

Thanks in advance for any data you can provide.

Kerry

 

[Dave Wooten]

Kerry,

My Wisner 7 x 17 weighs 11.2 lbs/ that is with the black silk bellows made in england, the red leather bellows weighs ounces more..about 30+ inches of draw....this camera had all the movements of the Tech series Ron designed..the bottom standard is same as 5 x 7 camera...i.e. the bottom rail etc. is not 17" wide....this camera weighs a bit less than my Wista 8 x 10 with the short bellows.

Dave in Vegas

 

[Dave Wooten]

P.S. to above:

This camera and specs to my knowledge has never been listed in the Wisner catalog.....

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

Dave,

Thanks for the response. Sometime when you have a chance, could you weigh just the camera back and black silk bellows separately and post the results?

Thanks,
Kerry

 

[Dave Wooten]

will do later this evening....

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

will do later this evening....

Dave,

Thanks. Also, is your Wisner made from cherry or mahogany? I haven't chosen the wood for my 7x17 yet. I normally favor cherry, but could also use mahogany or walnut (I have two walnut AWB holders).

Kerry

 

[Daniel Grenier]

..... could you weigh those items (bellows including mounting frames and camera back - just the back, not the entire rear standard) and post the weights here I'd appreciate it. .....

Hi Kerry.

My Wisner 7x17 Technical weighs 14.5 pounds with the removable back & bellows coming in at between 4-5 lbs (my scale is not terribly accurate). I have the red bellows and the camera is mahogany with a SatinSnow GG.

Hope this helps and good luck with your project.

Cheers - Daniel

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

Hi Kerry.

My Wisner 7x17 Technical weighs 14.5 pounds with the removable back & bellows coming in at between 4-5 lbs (my scale is not terribly accurate). I have the red bellows and the camera is mahogany with a SatinSnow GG.

Hope this helps and good luck with your project.

Cheers - Daniel

Daniel,

Thanks for the response. Is 4 - 5 lb. the weight of the entire 7x17 back, rear standard and bellows? I'm looking for the individual weights of the bellows and the back (just the removable back, not the entire rear standard).

Kerry

 

[Dave Wooten]

5 x 7 back 1.5- lbs (less than) 7 x 17 back 2- lbs (less than) black bellows less than 1 lb.
pelouze scale

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

5 x 7 back 1.5- lbs (less than) 7 x 17 back 2- lbs (less than) black bellows less than 1 lb.
pelouze scale

Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to weigh your 7x17 back and bellows. That's pretty close to my gestimates. Your back weighs a tad more than I expected, but your bellows are a bit lighter. Combined they are pretty close to the 3 lbs. total I had been using in my spreadsheet. Did your black silk bellows come with the camera, or did you have it custom made? I plan to have Camera Bellows make mine for me. Also, if you don't mind, what are the width and height of your 7x17 back? Of the 7x17 cameras I've seen in person and in pictures, the Wisner seems to have one of the more compact back designs. Is your Wisner made from cherry or mahogany?

It looks like my total camera weight will be a smidge under 12 lbs. - in its heaviest configuration. However, since it will be built on an ARCA-SWISS chassis, it will be modular and reconfigurable. So, if I want to reduce the weight for a longer hike, I can use a non-geared front standard and a shorter rail/extension bracket and leave my longest lens behind. That would shave over a pound off the weight off the camera (as well as the weight of the lens). In its minimum configuration, I could probably get the camera weight down to a bit over 10 lbs.

Kerry

 

[Daniel Grenier]

Daniel,

Thanks for the response. Is 4 - 5 lb. the weight of the entire 7x17 back, rear standard and bellows? I'm looking for the individual weights of the bellows and the back (just the removable back, not the entire rear standard).

Kerry

That was for the bellows and the removable back, Kerry (not the rear standard) but that does sound on the heavy side, indeed.... I will take it in to work tomorrow as I have a very accurate scale for more precise weigh in.

BTW, for only the second time in 25 years, I broke a Ground Glass!!! The SatinSnow GG just exploded when I sliped and the back droped on the floor! Nice chip in the mahogany too! Good thing I have a spare GG for such "occasions".

 

[Dave Wooten]

The camera is mahogany, Dr. Alan King of Calgary Canada had the bellows made in England I think, you can check with him, he is doing mainly 12 x 20 I think...the actual weight of the back is a bit less than I indicated....I plan to be in JT with Per at the end of the month, and will have the camera with me...your project sounds very interesting...good luck...

Dave in Vegas

 

[Dave Wooten]

Kerry,
I am sure you will keep us updated etc....a lot of the ulf cameras would benefit from a design option of simply removing the back and front standard and mounting on a light alloy tube extension design, making them more portable...

 

[Daniel Grenier]

Kerry.

The back of my 7x17 Technical Wisner and bellows (including a fairly heavy GG) comes to 4.65 pounds. 3.2 for the back itself and 1.45 for the bellows (red, old style). The whole camera is 14.4 pounds.

Hope this helps. Cheers

 

[Dave Wooten]

Dan is the bottom of your camera...the base plate area full width of the camera or the size of a 5 x 7 camera?

 

[Kerik]

My Wisner 7x17 weighs ~ 11 lbs. I haven't weighed the back/bellows alone, but it sounds like Dave and I probably have the same version.

 

[Daniel Grenier]

Dan is the bottom of your camera...the base plate area full width of the camera or the size of a 5 x 7 camera?

Dave, Kerry.

The base is 5x7 indeed. This link off the dealer the camera came from shows my actual camera and specs.

Dead Link Removed

 

[Dave Wooten]

Thanks for the photo link Dan,

The camera pictured looks exactly like the camera I have....I can't see reason for the 3 lb difference between your camera and the one Kerik and I have. and the specs listed you have posted....maybe the hardware? Looks the same....I think mine is brass...I dont feel that much is saved at this size on the black verses red bellows, I have both,,,the black actually seems to have less sag in the middle and supposedly gives shorter minimum focus, but the shortest lens I have is 240 comuputar and it works with both bellows.

 

[Kerik]

Mine has a full 30" of extension and bellows, not 23" as listed in the picture shown. Also, mine has the maroon kid leather bellows. I think the one in the pic is a synthetic material.

 

[Dave Wooten]

ditto, 30 inch bellows....

 

[Emile de Leon]

Hi Guys,
My Wisner 7x17 is 13.2 lbs. It has the most recent bellows incarnation being black(very thin leather with silk lining) with rear swing and rear geared tilt. All aluminum. I know the brass version is a lot heavier. The gg back frame is 2lbs 14oz alone. Weight scales can differ too. I used my super accurate shipping scale for the above results. Best regards, Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com.

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all the information on your 7x17 cameras. Since several of you have Wisners, could one of you please provide the width and height measurements for your removeable camera back. The only measurements I have on a 7x17 back is a Korona at 20" wide by 11" high. I'm hoping to make mine a little more compact, at least in the height dimension. From the photos I've seen online, the Wisner 7x17 back looks more compact than some of the other brands. Also, while you have the tape measure out, could you also provide the inner and outer dimensions of the rear bellows frame?

Anybody have a 7x17 Lotus? I used a Lotus back for my 4x10 and am pleased with the fit and finish and the way it works. I will either purchase a back for my camera from one of the camera manufacturers, or have one made for me by a craftsman like Richard Ritter or Alan Brubaker (my holders were made by Alan). Once I have the back, I'll make the rear wooden frame, metal supports and rear bellows frame to match. At this point, I'm just trying to get a good idea what the weights and sizes are of typical 7x17 cameras. I'd like to make mine as small and light as possible, but there are limits.

Thanks,
Kerry

 

[Dave Wooten]

Thanks Emile,

Was hoping you'd jump in here....maybe the wood thickness of the back frame itself is the difference? I also used shipping scale.....I know it is not off by a couple of pounds! I have 1/4 inch thickness on the back frame around the bellows...also i remember you had enhanced the strength of your cameras, more enabling one to do the verticals?

Dave

 

[Daniel Grenier]

Kerry. Here's the particulars on my camera:

Back 20 1/8" x 10 x 1 1/4.
Bellows 19 1/2 x 9 1/2 (outside) and 17 1/2 x 7 5/8 (inside).

Note that mine was (factory) modified to accept Korona holders but I don't know what that means in terms of differences with other holders but what I do know is that my S&S holders do not register perfectly well and I end up being off by close to 1/4 ". WYSIWIG does not apply with my camera (a nuisance, for sure but this not the holders "fault").

PS I, too, used a very accurate shipping scale... I guess mine has heavier wood

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

I just want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing when we say "back". I'm referring to specifically the removeable back and not including the rear standard frame to which it attaches.

Here's a photo of my 4x10 Lotus back (including some red and yellow arrows showing the inside and outside dimensions necessay to build a mating rear standard frame).

I already know how much the frame will weigh for my camera, but the back includes things like metal hardware and a ground glass that add weight beyond just the weight of the wood used to make the frame.

I just want to make sure everyone is weighing the same thing and we're getting a true apples:apples comparison. So, the weights I am looking for are just the camera back (as shown) and the bellows (including the attached frames).

Kerry