What does glycin add to a developer?

[DREW WILEY]

Oh yeah, Sorry. Slip of my mind. I printed some of that same Foma last year. It was the LEAST responsive to developer and toner controls of any paper I recall using, except MGIV. Otherwise a high quality paper, but not one I'll likely use again due to its toning and hue inflexibility. I guess I was subconsciously contrasting it with Bergger neutral tone, which is highly flexible in terms of image tone.

 

[chuckroast]

Oh yeah, Sorry. Slip of my mind. I printed some of that same Foma last year. It was the LEAST responsive to developer and toner controls of any paper I recall using, except MGIV. Otherwise a high quality paper, but not one I'll likely use again due to its toning and hue inflexibility. I guess I was subconsciously contrasting it with Bergger neutral tone, which is highly flexible in terms of image tone.

It tones quite readily with very dilute KRST, unlike MGIV.

 

[DREW WILEY]

That's about it - selenium warming an already warmish so-called "neutral" paper.

 

[tezzasmall]

Our Darkroom Group currently has a show in the Reach Gallery in Abbotsford BC, and some of the prints are mine.
For anyone interested, here are the details for the show: Reach Gallery - Darkroom Group - Persistence of Process

I followed the link that you gave Matt, and there is only one image there to view. A shame for all of the other photographers around the world who can't attend the exhibition, but would have liked to see some of the work. Obviously seeing prints is much better than viewing via the web, but something is better than nothing.

Good luck with it all to everyone concerned.

Terry S
UK

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Terry.
Yes, the gallery seeks to encourage people to visit by not displaying the work digitally.
We have no complaints - it is a tremendous Community Art space. Large, modern, well staffed and equipped and there is always a real variety of multi-media work showing there - much of which is of a very high caliber. We are a small group, so we end up in one of the smaller display areas, but the work is hung expertly and lit wonderfully.

 

[ezphotolessons]

To all these folks preaching Ansco 130 lives forever: yes it does, but so does Dektol stock solution, and the latter does it at the fraction of the cost.

I have never been able to develop prints in "stock" Dektol that was a year old, when I was a "user" regularly did that with Ansco 130. And dilute 1:2 in a tray that was weeks old, which worked as a wonderful split development bath with another tray of less old Ansco 130.

I have no idea what properties Glycin might have but I know Ansco 130 isn't a silver bullet, it's just a developer.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

FWIW, I've been printing for a week now with one batch of home-mixed ID-62. The developer is still going strong on day seven. It gets stored in a bottle between sessions. I'll toss it when the activity tapers off even a little, but so far, so good. I really like this developer. I've had stock solutions of ID-62 last for years.

I've tried glycin developers, but found they affected the toning properties of the papers I liked back then. Haven't tried any for a while, though.

Best,

Doremus

 

[chuckroast]

FWIW, I've been printing for a week now with one batch of home-mixed ID-62. The developer is still going strong on day seven. It gets stored in a bottle between sessions. I'll toss it when the activity tapers off even a little, but so far, so good. I really like this developer. I've had stock solutions of ID-62 last for years.

I've tried glycin developers, but found they affected the toning properties of the papers I liked back then. Haven't tried any for a while, though.

Best,

Doremus

I've been using 130 (or Dektol tweaked to becoming 130) for a couple months now. Based on the PF docs, I use it 1:1 with a stated capacity of 30 8x10/l. This takes well over a month at my normal printing cadence.

I have yet to see the developer exhaust or lose activity. I actually am replacing it sooner than expected only because
the developer carryover depletes the total working volume (2 liters) noticeably after 5 weeks or so of printing.

This is very much unlike Dektol 1:2 that - once diluted - maybe has a week of useful life (maybe) before it oxidizes dark brown, and then only if stored in glass between sessions.

So for cost effectiveness and longevity, 130 can't be beat. Then there is the lovely way it handles the tonal range,
particularly in the shadows. Subtle? Sure, but very real in my observation.

My plan is to continue to "130-ifiying" my considerable stock of remaining Dektol and thereafter just make 130 from scratch.

 

[Rudeofus]

I have never been able to develop prints in "stock" Dektol that was a year old, when I was a "user" regularly did that with Ansco 130. And dilute 1:2 in a tray that was weeks old, which worked as a wonderful split development bath with another tray of less old Ansco 130.

I have no idea what properties Glycin might have but I know Ansco 130 isn't a silver bullet, it's just a developer.

I typically mix Dektol stock according to digitaltruth formula, 2 liters at a time. Within a few months up to half a year this batch runs down to 1 liter due to carryover, and it turns medium to dark brown. By that time I typically toss it and start with a fresh batch, but in some cases I just replaced the missing liter with that amount of fresh soup.

You may be able to use Ansco 130 twice or three times as long, but if carryover is the deciding factor in shelf life, then this extra shelf life doesn't buy me much, and it's most definitely not worth the extra cost from Glycin.

PS: you write "split development", which tells me you likely use very old paper stock. Right?

 

[ezphotolessons]

I typically mix Dektol stock according to digitaltruth formula, 2 liters at a time. Within a few months up to half a year this batch runs down to 1 liter due to carryover, and it turns medium to dark brown. By that time I typically toss it and start with a fresh batch, but in some cases I just replaced the missing liter with that amount of fresh soup.

You may be able to use Ansco 130 twice or three times as long, but if carryover is the deciding factor in shelf life, then this extra shelf life doesn't buy me much, and it's most definitely not worth the extra cost from Glycin.

PS: you write "split development", which tells me you likely use very old paper stock. Right?

Hello
Your system sounds like a great system.

Yes used and fresh both are 1:2.
I'll make a dozen prints and after the second bath has worked off I sometimes mix both trays together and develop some film in the same soup. After the 6 hour sessions prints and films are hanging I bottle it up for the next time. The only test I use is a scrap of paper that turns black with the lights on. There must be something to this Glycin. Dektol is usually dead by the next day. The Ansco 130 scrap of paper is always black the next day the Dektol paper is akneemic

 

[chuckroast]

There must be something to this Glycin. Dektol is usually dead by the next day. The Ansco 130 scrap of paper is always black the next day the Dektol paper is akneemic

My experience as well. I can process upwards of 100 8x10s in 2 liters of 130 1+1 over a 1+ month period. Dektol at 1+2 working strength goes dark brown in at most a week, even if stored well in a glass bottle between working sessions.

The glycin is definitely improving working life. So much so, that I did the math on how to convert stock Dektol into stock 130 and that's how I am using up my remaining Dektol inventory.

 

[Rudeofus]

The secret is concentration of the soup: stock solution needs more Oxygen per liter to begin with (in order to lose strength), and less Oxygen will dissolve per liter due to its high salt content. This means it will last disproportionately longer than 1+1 or 1+2 working solutions. Storage doesn't seem to depend much on container, I don't even use glass bottles, just the normal wide mouthed 2 liter plastic bottles.

 

[chuckroast]

The secret is concentration of the soup: stock solution needs more Oxygen per liter to begin with (in order to lose strength), and less Oxygen will dissolve per liter due to its high salt content. This means it will last disproportionately longer than 1+1 or 1+2 working solutions. Storage doesn't seem to depend much on container, I don't even use glass bottles, just the normal wide mouthed 2 liter plastic bottles.

Well, yes, but the question for me - now answered - was whether a glycin based paper developer would have a longer shelf life at working strength. My experience is a resounding "yes" and that I don't have to treat paper developer as one shot even after many hours in an open tray.

I now measure working stock lifetime in terms of months and overall capacity. In truth, the 130 lasts so well that the real limiting factor seems to be loss of developer volume due to carryover.

 

[Rudeofus]

I now measure working stock lifetime in terms of months and overall capacity. In truth, the 130 lasts so well that the real limiting factor seems to be loss of developer volume due to carryover.

Fun fact: I use Dektol stock solution as working solution. I never dilute it. It works.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use RC for everything. Like every other tool available, the results depend more on how you understand them and how you make use of them.
It probably is important that I use a fair amount of toning as well.
Our Darkroom Group currently has a show in the Reach Gallery in Abbotsford BC, and some of the prints are mine. As all the prints are framed behind glass, it would be difficult to tell the RC prints from the FB prints.
For anyone interested, here are the details for the show: Reach Gallery - Darkroom Group - Persistence of Process

I saw this show a couple of weeks ago, and quite enjoyed it. A good mixture of processes. I wasn't really looking at what papers were used, but if pressed, it is quite difficult to tell, unless you get really close!
Only one thing missing from that show, though... me!

 

[Lachlan Young]

The secret is concentration of the soup: stock solution needs more Oxygen per liter to begin with (in order to lose strength), and less Oxygen will dissolve per liter due to its high salt content. This means it will last disproportionately longer than 1+1 or 1+2 working solutions. Storage doesn't seem to depend much on container, I don't even use glass bottles, just the normal wide mouthed 2 liter plastic bottles.

And a much larger pool of semiquinone (e.g. D-163 or for that matter, the reality of what is probably going on in Ansco 130) will also probably positively impact on solution longevity.

 

[MattKing]

I saw this show a couple of weeks ago, and quite enjoyed it. A good mixture of processes. I wasn't really looking at what papers were used, but if pressed, it is quite difficult to tell, unless you get really close!
Only one thing missing from that show, though... me!

We will hold you to that Andy!
Thanks for taking the time to view it.

 

[Rudeofus]

And a much larger pool of semiquinone (e.g. D-163 or for that matter, the reality of what is probably going on in Ansco 130) will also probably positively impact on solution longevity.

How would semiquinones render a developer more stable against Oxygen? Aren't semiquinones the compounds which turn lith developers into violent thugs?

 

[Lachlan Young]

How would semiquinones render a developer more stable against Oxygen? Aren't semiquinones the compounds which turn lith developers into violent thugs?

My jetlagged brain really meant in-situ formed HQMS - and it seems to be that a proportionately larger 'pool' of HQMS that enables the lifespan of developers like Liquidol (which seems heavily inspired by the work (such as can be traced) of Levenson).

 

[Rudeofus]

My jetlagged brain really meant in-situ formed HQMS - and it seems to be that a proportionately larger 'pool' of HQMS that enables the lifespan of developers like Liquidol (which seems heavily inspired by the work (such as can be traced) of Levenson).

HQMS would be formed in Dektol 1+2 just as well as in Dektol stock or pretty much any other print developer. Most of them have HQ and sulfite in ample amounts.

Impact of dissolved air exists not only in terms of Oxygen, the Carbon Dioxide lowers pH and thereby also weakens developers.